Item10181: Documentation for template webs was lost from System.ManagingWebs

I was looking for documentation on Foswiki webs that start with an underscore. Google's (messy) cache seems to indicate that such documentation existed in previous versions of ManagingWebs. However, the current version doesn't mention anything about template webs.

SVN trunk does have the documentation.

-- DanDascalescu - 21 Dec 2010

The problem is that it's hidden inside a twisty now.

-- PaulHarvey - 21 Dec 2010

I was standing next to a guy making a web and he did not even consider clicking on the twisty so he did not select template web or a web colour. All webs created the past months have all had the same colour. Noone opens the twisty because it is not obvious it is a control you should open.

The newbie needs to know the feature is there. And the advanced user does not need the "simple UI".

This idea that people have an easier life by hiding controls in UI behind a twisty is wrong. It does not work. We should remove that twisty again.

It is the 3rd or 4th time I hear this now. So I will remove it.

We must learn that hiding UI does not work. And look at the actual thing. It is 6 simple controls used by a person who is advanced enough a user to create webs. It is not a problem having all the fields visible. It is just a pain in the ass having to click the twisty and most users do not notice the twisty in the first place.

And then I end up with yet another support question when they ask how to change the web colour.

The issue is even larger because the documentation about template webs is hidden behind a twisty which again is hidden behind a twisty. It is like treasure hunting finding this documentation. It should not be. It is OK to have the explaining documentation behind a twisty as it is a context help twisty. But the controls should not be hidden. So it is the outer twisty I will remove.

-- KennethLavrsen - 21 Dec 2010

I think it would make more sense to move the "About template webs" documentation lower in the page, under "In-depth info on Webs", so that is easy to find the docs even if you are not creating a web.

I personally think that having advanced settings under twistys are a good idea. I would say that newbies don't want to be overwhelmed by many options, they just want to get it done. But I can see the arguments for both sides.

-- AndrewJones - 21 Dec 2010

As I said I have been standing next to a user (a power user) creating a subweb and he did not even notice the twisty. So it is too hidden now. You need to know about template webs if you want to select one.

Abd obviously the reporter also missed the twisty

It is not a matter of believe. We have several cases that proves that it does not work in practical life

-- KennethLavrsen - 22 Dec 2010

I don't see this as an either or situation. We introduced the twisty to hide the power options from first sight. Problem is they may not be expert options, as site managers may need to use the web template or web color, at least more than we figured.

So these options must get more attention.

A possible solution could be to show the current (default) setting and add a "change" link to open the form part. So a twisty for each expert option.

-- ArthurClemens - 22 Dec 2010

I'm a "power user" in that I patch Foswiki code, develop internal plugins, and can be tasked with creating webs for internal groups in my organization.

Yet it never occurred to me that there was a Twisty in ManagingWebs.

-- DanDascalescu - 23 Dec 2010

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