--- Log opened Mon Oct 27 20:39:18 2008 20:39 -!- gmc [n=gmc@freenode/sponsor/gmc] has joined #twiki_fork 20:39 -!- ServerMode/#twiki_fork [+ns] by leguin.freenode.net 20:39 -!- Irssi: #twiki_fork: Total of 1 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 0 normal] 20:39 -!- Irssi: Join to #twiki_fork was synced in 0 secs 20:39 -!- MichaelDaum [n=micha@dslb-082-083-134-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #twiki_fork 20:39 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+o MichaelDaum] by gmc 20:40 -!- EugenMayer [n=EugenMay@dslb-092-074-254-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #twiki_fork 20:40 -!- OliverKrueger [n=nokruege@212.12.123.26] has joined #twiki_fork 20:40 < OliverKrueger> Moin. 20:40 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@cpe.atm2-0-103309.0x3ef3d076.albnxx13.customer.tele.dk] has joined #twiki_fork 20:40 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@dslc-082-082-098-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #twiki_fork 20:41 < EugenMayer> hello fellows 20:41 < OliverKrueger> Finally.... 20:41 <@gmc> hey 20:42 < Lavr_> Hey. 20:42 -!- GilmarSantosJr [n=GilmarSa@189.104.195.136] has joined #twiki_fork 20:42 -!- CDot1 [n=crawford@crawfordcurrie.plus.com] has joined #twiki_fork 20:42 < CDot1> hi all 20:42 < AndreU> hi 20:42 < Lavr_> We need fast: Name, domain, server 20:43 < EugenMayer> Ok, before any name, councel stuff starts. I suggest, every last councel member keeps its seets, the community has elected them. In addition, who will host ( i will help here ) 20:43 < CDot1> ok, so, working name Nextwiki? 20:43 <@gmc> CDot1: yes, that would save me on shirt-printing costs 20:43 <@MichaelDaum> NextWiki is ok. 20:43 < Lavr_> I would like a real name we can stick to fast. We need to build up a new brand fast. 20:43 < EugenMayer> Guys, do we need the name disc. now? Is it really important for the poeple now to choose "i fork with them"? 20:43 < GilmarSantosJr> hi all 20:43 < CDot1> sven owns the domain; he may donate it, remains to be seen 20:44 < CDot1> but it's a working name, in case we find something better. 20:44 < CDot1> server? 20:44 < EugenMayer> I will try to host 20:44 <@MichaelDaum> I've registered natural-wiki.org 20:44 < EugenMayer> as long as i can ( performance wise ) 20:44 < CDot1> EugenMayer: could be a BIG load 20:44 < OliverKrueger> I can donate some server resources. 20:44 <@gmc> nextwiki.org has address 82.94.245.62 <== that's one of my ips.. we should put something up there.. 20:44 < Lavr_> Oliver also said at some point that he could host 20:44 < EugenMayer> I know, i try what i can Crawford. 20:44 < CDot1> really need some decent HW 20:45 < OliverKrueger> I have wiki-one.net/com/org 20:45 <@gmc> anyway, name is not so important now i guess 20:45 < AndreU> we can also provide some host capacity 20:45 < EugenMayer> My HW is not decent at this point. The HW is used also, so iam just maybe a time soloution 20:45 <@gmc> i've got some spare server capacity for the moment 20:45 < AndreU> think we need to work out some kind of load balancing for the future 20:45 <@gmc> lets get that sorted out later, and set it up distributed properly from the start 20:46 < EugenMayer> 5,2GHZ x2 / 2GB ram / raid1 / no traffic limit is what i can give right now 20:46 < AndreU> Eugen, this is great 20:46 <@gmc> EugenMayer: i've got 16x3ghz amd, 16GB ram, 4x1TB raid5 idling atm :) 20:46 <@gmc> same with the traffic 20:46 < EugenMayer> gmc: crazy guy! 20:46 < AndreU> distributed can come a bit later, we are used to a slow server... 20:46 < OliverKrueger> My server is smaller. 20:47 -!- uebera|| [n=nnnnuser@enton.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de] has joined #twiki_fork 20:47 < AndreU> you people looked at twiki.net? 20:47 <@gmc> AndreU: :) 20:47 < uebera||> Hi... still catching up... 20:47 -!- PeterThoeny_ [n=PeterTho@63.146.69.17] has joined #twiki_fork 20:47 < EugenMayer> ok, iam up to help setting up and administrate. I will try to make my plugins 4.2.3 ready and will contribute as soon as possible. 20:47 -!- LarsEik [n=lek@77.17.180.86.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #twiki_fork 20:47 < AndreU> I guess they will start doing marketing with the things they prepared in the last months 20:47 < OliverKrueger> Peter? 20:47 < PeterThoeny_> hi olver 20:47 <@MichaelDaum> PeterThoeny_, what do you want here? 20:48 < OliverKrueger> Do you want to fork, too? 20:48 < EugenMayer> could we stop beein childish? 20:48 <@gmc> PeterThoeny_: would you kindly consider vacating this channel? 20:48 < PeterThoeny_> just curiosity :-) 20:48 < Lavr_> Noone with a sain mind will accept the twiki.net insanity conditions. 20:48 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+oooo Lavr_ uebera|| CDot1 GilmarSantosJr] by gmc 20:48 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+oooo AndreU Lavr_ OliverKrueger EugenMayer] by gmc 20:48 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+o MichaelDaum] by gmc 20:49 <@EugenMayer> Lavr_: there will be people, people who have never been part of the serious community and never really done more then discussing. This people will maybe do this, but we will not need them to much either here 20:49 <@MichaelDaum> Now, everybody can kickban, you Peter. 20:49 <@EugenMayer> Iam the jungest, i should start actuall. You can call it "its his age, forgive him" 20:49 <@Lavr_> Hey. The fork is an open source project. Even Peter can join. 20:49 < PeterThoeny_> please consider a name other than twiki 20:49 -!- PeterThoeny_ was kicked from #twiki_fork by EugenMayer [User terminated!] 20:50 -!- PeterThoeny_ [n=PeterTho@63.146.69.17] has joined #twiki_fork 20:50 <@gmc> thanks EugenMayer 20:50 <@AndreU> Michael, you mean do it "the Peter way"? 20:50 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+b *!*=PeterTho@63.146.69.*] by gmc 20:50 -!- PeterThoeny_ was kicked from #twiki_fork by gmc [gmc] 20:50 <@gmc> doesn't take a hint 20:50 <@CDot1> quit it; it's not important 20:50 <@CDot1> he is as entitled to be in this channel as anyone else 20:50 <@AndreU> let him in! I want to kick him too! 20:50 <@EugenMayer> Lavr_: iam fully with you, but he is trying just to provacate with his stay here 20:50 <@CDot1> he is not relevant 20:50 <@Lavr_> No. No more Peterphobia 20:51 <@OliverKrueger> I think, the name discussion is important now, cause we can unite behind a name. :) 20:51 <@EugenMayer> Ok lets keep on the points important. 20:51 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [-b *!*=PeterTho@63.146.69.*] by gmc 20:51 -!- Lynnwood [n=lynnwood@twiki/developer/lynnwood] has joined #twiki_fork 20:51 <@EugenMayer> Ok does anyone has a proper load balancing idea for the new "nextwiki" or even a solution? 20:51 <@CDot1> I have a list of names that I would be happy to share with everyone, that we worked out before (and during) the summit. 20:52 <@AndreU> I like nextwiki as a working name 20:52 <@Lavr_> Please share those names CDot 20:52 <@OliverKrueger> cool 20:52 <@EugenMayer> CDot1: lead on 20:52 <@CDot1> not now; can anyone set up a mailing list? 20:52 <@CDot1> register a project on sourceforge? 20:52 <@Lavr_> Do not worry too much about the load on our new server. The old t.o server was a piece of crap. That is why it was so slow. 20:52 <@gmc> i think i already registered nextwiki.org lemme check 20:53 <@gmc> s/nextwiki.org/nextwiki on sf/ 20:53 < Lynnwood> death to twiki! long live nextwiki!! 20:53 <@OliverKrueger> Hi Lynnwood 20:53 <@EugenMayer> freelists.org? 20:53 < Lynnwood> gawd, why did we waste so long thinking these folks would going to get it? 20:53 <@MichaelDaum> Lynnwood, you sound like an old pirate 20:54 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+o Lynnwood] by AndreU 20:54 <@CDot1> "talk like a pirate" day was last month 20:54 <@EugenMayer> Lynnwood: it is the right way we did it. We wasted time, but this unites us also. 20:54 <@Lavr_> We should find a name fast and start getting the domain registered and SF project setup. 20:54 <@gmc> CDot1: hmm yes we had a lot of fun on #har @ ircnet that day :) 20:54 <@OliverKrueger> We could use a pirate theme throughout our nextwiki... :) 20:54 <@EugenMayer> Anybody here, who i against "nextwiki" ? 20:54 <@CDot1> yes; priorities. 1) SF project and mailing list(s) 20:55 <@OliverKrueger> nextwiki +1 20:55 <@MichaelDaum> we need press coverage 20:55 <@EugenMayer> CDot1: is a mailing list on freelists.org enaugh or do we need an own one? I will setup one on my server, if needed 20:55 <@Lavr_> I am not sure about nextwiki. Not against it either. But it does not have a marketing kick. Does it? 20:55 <@gmc> http://sourceforge.net/projects/nextwiki/ 20:55 <@CDot1> 2) press (don;t we need servers first, in case of /. 20:55 <@gmc> Lavr_: its a temporary name, to keep us together for the time being 20:55 <@CDot1> yes, temporary name 20:56 <@gmc> ah yes, i even made sven project admin on it.. 20:56 <@gmc> shall i create a ml? 20:56 <@Lavr_> yes. But best is to define the name fast and do all the registration fast with the right name. Time is important now. 20:56 <@MichaelDaum> I would like to donate money to pay a professional copywriter developing a nice new name. 20:56 <@CDot1> go for it 20:56 <@OliverKrueger> gmc, yes, pls 20:56 -!- sreher [n=SvenRehe@dslb-082-083-186-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #twiki_fork 20:57 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+o sreher] by AndreU 20:57 <@CDot1> sven has a backup of t.o, but how recent I can't say 20:57 <@gmc> hi sven 20:57 <@MichaelDaum> you know all of our products'n plugins will have NextWikiTrickyContrib in it 20:57 <@sreher> hi all 20:57 <@MichaelDaum> Hi Hannover 20:58 <@EugenMayer> MichaelDaum: iam not rich, but i will through in what i can. 50EUR from my side. I have private things going on which are locking my money right now. Do you have someone in mind which is capable of this? 20:58 <@OliverKrueger> gmc: Do you need addresses? 20:58 <@MichaelDaum> yes a friend of mine is a copywriter 20:58 <@CDot1> english speaking? 20:59 <@MichaelDaum> I can make contact with him to come up with a list of new names that we can add to a voting list 20:59 <@CDot1> sounds good 20:59 <@gmc> It will take 6-24 Hours for your list to be created. 20:59 <@EugenMayer> MichaelDaum: as i said, i will donate with my drib. 20:59 <@MichaelDaum> okay. so let's target at some 4-5 candidate names that we then vote on. 21:00 <@EugenMayer> who owns http://www.nextwiki.com/ , on of the guys in here? 21:00 <@gmc> drop me a line on gmc@sonologic.nl if you want to make sure you're on the list 21:00 <@OliverKrueger> regarding press coverage: I have a contact to T3N, a german open source magazine, and to cold contact to Heise, who is doing c't here in germany. 21:00 <@gmc> EugenMayer: sven also i beleive 21:00 <@CDot1> adam hyde might help out, though i suspect he will stay with twiki.org 21:00 <@gmc> oh .. no.. anyway, doesn't matter.. its throw-away anyway 21:01 <@gmc> CDot1: you think so? 21:01 <@Lavr_> Nextwiki is a registered trademark 21:01 <@AndreU> regarding press coverage: today I phoned with the vice of iX who want an article about twiki 21:01 <@MichaelDaum> OliverKrueger, good. They are Carlo's friends as well. 21:01 <@CDot1> is it? registered to who? 21:01 <@AndreU> I directed him to carlo too :-) 21:01 <@Lavr_> http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/gate.exe?f=doc&state=ner2kb.2.1 21:01 <@gmc> peter de laurentis by any chance? 21:02 <@MichaelDaum> good to check in advance. we are burned already. 21:02 <@gmc> anyway, does it matter much? we'll have something better soon 21:02 <@AndreU> gmc, we already have a press announcement, did we? 21:02 <@MichaelDaum> owned by pete.delaurentis@gmail.com, nextwiki.com expires on 07-Oct-09 21:02 <@CDot1> darn. Oh well, plenty more better names around. 21:03 <@Lavr_> What is important now is to get as many from the old community to the new. Every hour counts. For this we need a "home" with the real name. 21:03 <@MichaelDaum> I've got natural-wiki.org/com/net 21:03 <@gmc> Lavr_: true, but picking 'the right name' is a bit tricky to do in a hurry 21:03 <@OliverKrueger> Shall I setup a wiki now? 21:04 <@sreher> your are right Lavr_: 21:04 <@gmc> OliverKrueger: i can give you logon rights to that monster machine i mentioned 21:04 <@AndreU> can't we not simply do it on the sourceforge site gmc set up? 21:04 <@MichaelDaum> AndreU, +1 21:04 <@EugenMayer> gmc: i can also provide help with the setup 21:04 <@MichaelDaum> let's keep it simple, with a statement of fork in plain index.html 21:04 <@OliverKrueger> Im not familiar with SF. If that works, thats ok. :) 21:04 <@Lavr_> We should not start anything under a wrong name. And especially not one owned by someone else. 21:05 <@AndreU> we have to have a platform 21:05 <@AndreU> so just start and than come up to the public when we worked it out 21:05 <@CDot1> MichaelDaum: natural-wiki will not get my vote. NatWiki? No way. Need a neutral name. 21:05 <@gmc> AndreU: +1 21:05 <@gmc> we are not going to solve the name problem here and now 21:05 <@Lavr_> Does not even need Wiki in it IMHO 21:06 <@CDot1> no. Micha is right, statement of fork comes first. 21:06 <@MichaelDaum> does anybody have registered domains that make sense. 21:06 <@GilmarSantosJr> guys, I need to go now but I'll let my irc client open to read the log later. I want to join this new project and help it to grow 21:06 <@GilmarSantosJr> see you! 21:06 * AndreU has got a domain searching app for twiki which checks a few of them at once 21:06 <@MichaelDaum> GilmarSantosJr, see you 21:06 <@OliverKrueger> as I mentioned, I have: wiki-one.com/net/org 21:06 <@gmc> GilmarSantosJr: thanks! 21:06 <@EugenMayer> MichaelDaum: collaborganize.XX 21:07 <@MichaelDaum> we also have wikiring.org 21:07 <@AndreU> just set up a platform and then we are going to search after a decent name 21:07 <@Lynnwood> it appears that peter will restrict us from posting our fork statement on twiki.org... 21:07 <@AndreU> we need to organize 21:07 <@Lynnwood> so it may be tricky now to get word out. 21:07 <@MichaelDaum> Who has got blogs in here? 21:07 <@OliverKrueger> not me :( 21:07 <@gmc> MichaelDaum: i was already typing on a blog entry on my own blog 21:08 <@MichaelDaum> we need a pointer to the StatementOfFork in it. 21:08 <@CDot1> We can post on the wikiring blog, FWIW 21:08 <@CDot1> what does that statement have to say? 21:08 <@OliverKrueger> wikiring is okay for me. 21:08 <@gmc> good q 21:09 < LarsEik> I'm just a small admin doing twiki locally at work, but I'm all in with the fork. It feels good and about time. Beetween work and family I will contribute what I can. 21:09 <@EugenMayer> CDot1: 1. why 2. Key-Changes in the fork 21:09 <@MichaelDaum> LarsEik, welcome 21:09 <@EugenMayer> welcome 21:10 <@gmc> LarsEik: thanks! 21:10 <@gmc> uwiki is being suggested btw :) 21:10 <@sreher> want about sourceforge? We have access to that? 21:10 <@CDot1> please state points that need to be made in the statement of fork. 21:11 <@CDot1> 1) TWiki is now non-free 21:11 <@gmc> sreher: you mean the twiki sf project, or nextwiki? 21:11 <@gmc> 2) core team is jumping on the fork train 21:11 <@gmc> for some value of 'core team' 21:11 <@sreher> gmc: twikis sf project 21:11 <@uebera||> regarding the weblog... I could include a short note/link to the head of each page once a new channel/project page has been chosen. 21:12 <@gmc> sreher: that's peter's domain 21:13 <@CDot1> 3) new project will aim to do the best for existing twiki users 21:13 <@sreher> gmc: yea twiki.org owns by peter - but the account on sf - he now don't need, or ;-) 21:13 <@sreher> we need a wiki to organized! - an that fast 21:13 < LarsEik> 3,4) the are other (and better) commercial support options for "next" wiki 21:14 <@MichaelDaum> 4) will be true open source not endangered by a single commercial entity owning a trademark 21:14 <@CDot1> Who is doing what, please? 21:14 <@CDot1> MichaelDaum: 4) good one 21:14 <@CDot1> that's probably enough; KISS 21:14 <@MichaelDaum> we also have to play sour grapes a bit 21:15 <@EugenMayer> 5) No blind web 2.0 run - Usability is one of the core goals 21:16 <@CDot1> EugenMayer: I think 3) covers that enough; we don't want to prejudge where it is going to go 21:16 <@OliverKrueger> I wonder if Peter and Tom already sold their company.... 21:16 <@EugenMayer> CDot1: it was more of "kick on twiki.org/net" 21:16 -!- drew_stevenson [n=etherbob@x-128-101-84-245.dhcp.umn.edu] has joined #twiki_fork 21:16 <@CDot1> OliverKrueger: in the current economic climate? Maybe to Lehman Brothers.... 21:16 <@OliverKrueger> :) 21:16 <@EugenMayer> They use the word web 2.0 likes it s a heaven or goal. 21:17 <@CDot1> sure, it's marketing jive 21:17 <@sreher> we need a wiki to organized all the stuff 21:17 <@CDot1> agreed 21:17 <@gmc> ok 21:17 <@EugenMayer> sure exactly, but we want to clarify, that the decisions in here are not "jived", but thought. Thats what 5) was about 21:17 <@sreher> where? 21:17 <@gmc> i fired up a jail (which is sorta like a vm) under nextwiki.org.. 21:18 <@CDot1> gmc: url? 21:18 <@CDot1> obvious, I know, but.... 21:18 <@gmc> www.nextwiki.org :) 21:18 <@sreher> no at the first time we need a performance server 21:18 -!- WikiRingBot [i=www-data@wikiring.de] has joined #twiki_fork 21:19 <@MichaelDaum> WikiRingBot, hi 21:19 * WikiRingBot does not understand hi 21:19 <@sreher> we have one, but it isn't the fastest at the moment 21:19 <@EugenMayer> hmm, i like twikifork.org as a temporaly name. Its in there, thats a fork and that it is temporally. i like it 21:19 <@EugenMayer> it Lynnwoods idea 21:19 <@Lynnwood> i just stupidly posted commnent in #twiki 21:19 <@gmc> sreher: 16* 3ghz amd with 16GB of mem fast enough? 21:20 <@sreher> yea - i think so 21:20 <@Lavr_> I now have the mailing list addresses of twiki-dev and twiki-announce as text files. I still had access to those. 21:20 <@CDot1> ok, I have written my personal statement. What about the public one? I would be happy to work with others on it, but am not doing it alone. 21:20 <@gmc> LarsEik: you evil one 21:20 <@CDot1> gmc: can't get to that URL 21:21 <@Lynnwood> i'm about to buy twikifork.com 21:21 <@gmc> s/LarsEik/lavr/ 21:21 <@gmc> CDot1: working on it 21:21 <@MichaelDaum> Lynnwood, make it .org 21:21 <@Lynnwood> should it? or both 21:21 <@CDot1> Lynnwood: what did you say in #twiki 21:21 <@sreher> gmc: can we set up a wiki on the server? 21:21 <@Lynnwood> suggested to post twikifork.org 21:21 <@gmc> sreher: sure can.. 21:21 <@CDot1> just .org. This is an OSS project, don;t need .com, do we? 21:21 <@sreher> ok, how we make it? 21:22 <@EugenMayer> -- 21:22 <@EugenMayer> [22:18] here's a quick thought before i have to run to take family for diner: 21:22 <@EugenMayer> [22:18] That we get domain twikifork.org 21:22 <@EugenMayer> [22:18] or some such as temporary domain 21:22 <@EugenMayer> [22:18] and link to it like made 21:22 <@EugenMayer> [22:18] so that it runs up in google 21:22 <@EugenMayer> [22:19] opps 21:22 <@EugenMayer> -- 21:22 <@Lynnwood> lol 21:22 <@EugenMayer> should i register it? 21:23 <@Lynnwood> i was about to 21:23 <@Lynnwood> should i go ahead? 21:23 <@gmc> http://www.nextwiki.org/ <== i was preparing that earlier :) 21:23 <@Lavr_> Why provoke using the TWIki string in the name 21:23 <@AndreU> ja, just don't do that 21:23 <@Lynnwood> simply to catch the searches... 21:23 <@CDot1> I don't *want* twiki in the name 21:23 <@Lavr_> We just ask to have our bottoms spanked. 21:23 <@MichaelDaum> no web2.0 language please 21:23 <@OliverKrueger> We are forcing him to sue us... ;) 21:23 <@EugenMayer> Lavr_: its clear, where the for is from. Its clear, thats it is temporaly 21:23 <@Lynnwood> on temporary! 21:23 <@CDot1> spanked by whom? Peter's vast legal team? 21:23 <@Lynnwood> it could later redirect to whatever name we choose 21:24 <@sreher> please - we are discuss a name, but we have to discuss how we go on 21:24 <@AndreU> we will appear in google with a subdomain also 21:24 <@gmc> i'll cleat that index.html asap 21:24 <@Lynnwood> the point is that we are already essentially blocked from twiki.org 21:24 <@CDot1> sreher: right. I need a wiki, so I can start a draft statement of fork. 21:24 <@AndreU> and there is also text which could get indexed by google 21:24 <@CDot1> Lynnwood: howso? 21:24 <@Lynnwood> i'm being called :-( 21:25 <@Lynnwood> hungry kids 21:25 <@sreher> gmc: how we can manage the setup 21:25 <@gmc> i propose two or three people step up now to work on the admin side of things.. 21:25 <@gmc> EugenMayer already volunteered 21:25 <@Lynnwood> well, i've got to go. if someone else thinks it's worthwhile, go for it 21:25 <@OliverKrueger> gmc: Do you already work on a setup under nextwiki.org? 21:25 <@gmc> OliverKrueger: i already had stuff on there 21:25 <@Lynnwood> the point is: how will people find us if not through twiki? 21:26 <@OliverKrueger> can we use it? 21:26 <@gmc> OliverKrueger: yes 21:26 <@Lynnwood> how to run up our name in association with twiki searches 21:26 <@OliverKrueger> as a temp platform? 21:26 <@gmc> Lynnwood: very good question 21:26 <@gmc> OliverKrueger: absolutely 21:26 <@OliverKrueger> How can I register? 21:26 <@Lynnwood> sorry, i'm being dragged off by hungry kids 21:26 <@Lavr_> In the first round we need the developers moved over. After that we need a release. No point in getting "customers" as long as we have nothing. 21:27 <@OliverKrueger> bye Lynnwood 21:27 <@AndreU> Lynnwood, we need find solutions for the marketing in our new wiki 21:27 <@gmc> Lynnwood: see you! 21:28 <@gmc> so, we need a volunteer to help EugenMayer get this setup into shape :) 21:28 <@CDot1> Lavr_: agreed, but we mustn't lose sight of the admin side of things, cos that is what will pull the devs over; "business as usual" for IRC users, for example 21:28 <@EugenMayer> By lyn 21:28 <@sreher> gmc: i can help 21:28 <@MichaelDaum> are there any pointers to blogs already? 21:29 <@gmc> Lavr_: naively, our first release is just twiki trunk with s/twiki/ournewname/ 21:29 <@gmc> MichaelDaum: i need more fingers :) 21:29 <@EugenMayer> guys should i register twikifork.org now for using in the next week(s) until we have a name? This name is 100% neutral and clears out what forks from which project AND that its temp. 21:30 <@CDot1> how do we tell #twiki users to go to #nextwiki if they want help? 21:30 <@gmc> EugenMayer: twikifork.org go for it (domains are cheap anyway) 21:30 <@gmc> CDot1: good question.. 21:30 <@EugenMayer> do people agree a "bit"? 21:30 <@gmc> CDot1: did you see that q from the guy just yet 'so does everyone go with the new world order' ? 21:30 <@CDot1> gmc: yep 21:31 <@CDot1> need some way to point people to where they can get help 21:31 <@EugenMayer> yeah they type in "twiki fork" 21:31 <@EugenMayer> and we get the fist hits with the domain.. 21:31 <@OliverKrueger> Do you think, Peter will kick us if we do some support on #twiki and tell the people "btw" that there is twiki.fork? 21:32 <@CDot1> perhaps wikiringbot can help. Answer every sentence ending in a question mark with "try asking in #otherchannel instead" 21:32 <@Lavr_> We will reside on #twiki and tell everyone about the fork in the days to come. 21:32 <@OliverKrueger> :) 21:32 <@OliverKrueger> me too, until I get kicked. 21:32 <@CDot1> Lavr_: we will have to, i think. 21:32 <@uebera||> " how do we tell #twiki users to go to #nextwiki if they want help?" -- does anyone know Colas' position on this? He has the "other" (way more prominent) weblog for #twiki -- if it's mentioned in the header, people will learn about it... 21:32 <@gmc> s/days/weeks/ 21:32 <@gmc> if not months 21:33 <@gmc> i know colas is privately skeptical on t.n's course on t.o 21:33 -!- Wolf_Marbach [n=comconlt@125-238-209-207.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #twiki_fork 21:33 <@OliverKrueger> I know the guy from wikimatrix. btw. 21:33 <@CDot1> hey, Wolf! You're up early? 21:34 <@OliverKrueger> Hi Wolf 21:34 <@CDot1> OliverKrueger: could be handy 21:34 < Wolf_Marbach> hi there nope we now have 12 hours time difference 21:34 <@MichaelDaum> Hi Wolf 21:34 <@CDot1> OliverKrueger: when we have a product, that is 21:34 <@OliverKrueger> yep 21:34 <@CDot1> 4.2.4 -> nextwiki 1.0? 21:34 <@CDot1> 0.5? 21:34 <@OliverKrueger> not 2.0? ;) 21:34 < Wolf_Marbach> Hi Michael, can't see the prvious stuff, so whats up 21:35 <@Lavr_> I would continue the current release numbers. new name 4.2.4 21:35 <@CDot1> Wolf_Marbach: go read recent changes on Codev 21:35 <@uebera||> Would'nt call it *0.5* -- it's stable, isn't it? 21:35 <@Lavr_> It would be cool to have our 4.2.4 out before PeterWiki 21:35 <@gmc> what should be in it? 21:35 <@CDot1> Lavr_: that works for me. Are you going to build it? 21:35 <@OliverKrueger> I think, 4.2.4 is the best solution. 21:35 <@Lavr_> Gladly. 21:36 <@CDot1> Sven was asking (hadn't seen you for a while) 21:36 <@Lavr_> This weekend maybe? If we can close any upsetting bugs. 21:36 <@uebera||> Sorry, but wouldn't 4.2.4 look a bit childish to some eyes? t.n could simply call their next release 5.0, then... 21:36 < Wolf_Marbach> Got it, so there is a fork now? I should have waited with my book :-( 21:36 <@Lavr_> What about d.t.o? We depend on this in the build contrib 21:36 <@uebera||> I'd state that nextwiki 1.0 was intended to become twiki 4.2.4 somewhere. 21:37 <@Lavr_> And we should not check in a single byte from now on on d.t.o 21:37 <@MichaelDaum> uebera||, I have no doubt that we will be able to create added value much faster than PeterWiki 21:37 <@gmc> uebera||: although 4.2.4 does really make it 'the next twiki' 21:37 <@MichaelDaum> Lavr_, as you know I haven't for some time 21:37 <@uebera||> I don't doubt _that_ either. 21:38 <@uebera||> "1.0" would symbolize a "fresh start", otoh... 21:38 <@MichaelDaum> and we have to make sure that the psycho-block gets left behind we all got used to on that old project 21:38 <@CDot1> right now we have to focus on (1) making sure we have infrastucture (2) making sure we are known about and (3) making people realise we are not trying to make their lives difficult (with some notable exceptions) 21:38 < LarsEik> so we have hardware and internetline? do we need more, if so I can ask at work for donation of x kbps bandwith and some? 21:38 <@OliverKrueger> Do we have the accounts from t.o.? (password hashes) 21:39 <@CDot1> OliverKrueger: probably; sven's backups, again 21:39 <@OliverKrueger> We could "preregister" accounts for the ppl. :) 21:39 <@Lavr_> I have one which is from the days before the twiki summit 21:39 <@Lavr_> On d.t.o we should have a fresh one. You still have admin access for d.t.o? 21:40 <@CDot1> probably. dunno. 21:40 <@OliverKrueger> d.t.o is "ours", right= 21:40 <@OliverKrueger> ? 21:40 * CDot1 checks 21:40 <@Lavr_> I do not 21:41 <@MichaelDaum> Too bad Wolf_Marbach just wrote a book about that old project 21:41 <@gmc> MichaelDaum: a proper book? that's being printed and all? 21:41 <@OliverKrueger> yep 21:41 <@OliverKrueger> Wolf_Marbach: NOW you can be the first one! ;))))) 21:41 <@CDot1> It appears my password has been changed on d.t.o, though I can still get in (don't ask) 21:42 < Wolf_Marbach> will be published from 1st of November, but we can rewwrite it for the new Wiki 21:42 <@Lavr_> I cannot 21:42 <@MichaelDaum> http://www.amazon.de/TWiki-Einrichten-Verwalten-Wolf-Marbach/dp/3936546584/ 21:42 <@OliverKrueger> install ssh keys. 21:42 <@OliverKrueger> and a backdoor. :) 21:42 <@Lavr_> So if you have access making a tarball and get it out may be a good move 21:42 -!- MayerEugen [n=EugenMay@dslb-092-074-254-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #twiki_fork 21:42 < Wolf_Marbach> @Oliver: I just didn't see the Springer book as really helpful to do anything with TWiki :) 21:43 <@MichaelDaum> well Peter just installed TopicCreatePlugin this morning. which is kind of well insecure: using backticks with user strings inside. 21:43 -!- EugenMayer [n=EugenMay@dslb-092-074-254-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:43 <@MichaelDaum> no reason to keep that on twiki-security mailing list anymore 21:43 <@gmc> MichaelDaum: doesn't perl barf on that? 21:43 <@OliverKrueger> Wolf_Marbach: hehe, true. Its way to old... 21:43 <@MichaelDaum> gmc, not the way this code is written. 21:43 <@CDot1> Lavr_: I don't have sufficient access, no. 21:43 <@MichaelDaum> he untaints the string in an attempt to separate web and topic names. which makes it non-sub-webish. 21:44 <@gmc> $arg=~/^(.*)$/; $arg=$1; # TODO: properly untaint this 21:44 <@gmc> :) 21:44 <@Lavr_> I hope Sven still did his backups then. 21:44 <@gmc> we'll know when he wakes up 21:44 <@MichaelDaum> I asked him a while ago 21:44 <@CDot1> any news on that wiki yet? 21:45 <@gmc> CDot1: eugen and sven are hacking away on it 21:45 <@gmc> we do have a ml it seems: 21:45 <@gmc> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/nextwiki-discuss 21:47 <@CDot1> peter has written on twiki.org: "All other TWiki.org website content is the property of TWiki.org and may not be copied without written approval from the TWiki Community Council." 21:47 <@CDot1> yet the copyright at the bottom of the page states "All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors. " 21:47 <@CDot1> I don;t recall ever assigning rights to my content to something called "twiki.org"? 21:48 <@OliverKrueger> Lets ask Peter to remove $MY content entirely. 21:48 <@CDot1> don't hold your breath. That's how Michael Sparks got banned. 21:49 <@gmc> pff 21:51 -!- peterthoeny [n=PeterTho@twiki/founder/peterthoeny] has joined #twiki_fork 21:51 <@OliverKrueger> Hi peterthoeny 21:51 < MayerEugen> hi peter 21:52 < peterthoeny> hi oliver 21:52 <@OliverKrueger> Can we help you? 21:52 < peterthoeny> no, i want to ask you if i can help you? 21:53 < MayerEugen> sreher: bin im skype 21:53 <@OliverKrueger> Not at the moment. Thanks. 21:53 < peterthoeny> and i would like to express my thanks for all the work to all who decide not to stick around on twiki.org 21:53 <@AndreU> Ok Peter, I think we all got it now. Enjoy your life 21:54 <@MichaelDaum> Lavr_, CDot1, Lynnwood: Adam just joined in skype. Maybe we organize a call now. Lynnwood is taking care of kids. Lynnwood are you there now? 21:54 <@CDot1> MichaelDaum: sure. 21:54 <@Lavr_> sure 21:57 < drew_stevenson> if someone can let me know what happens I'd appreciate it 21:57 < drew_stevenson> drew@umn.edu 21:58 <@gmc> drew_stevenson: shall i put you on the mailing list that we're setting up for now? 21:58 < drew_stevenson> sure 21:58 < drew_stevenson> thanks 21:58 <@gmc> np, thanks for hanging around :) 21:58 < drew_stevenson> what a way to start a week :) 21:58 <@CDot1> It appears I have to "opt in" to TWiki.org in order to maintain plugins 21:59 <@Lavr_> Did you really plan to maintain any there? 21:59 < drew_stevenson> they do have his name all over them 21:59 < drew_stevenson> I could see a temptation 22:00 <@CDot1> it also appears that my content on that site is now owned by something called "twiki.org", despite it being contributed "All material on this collaboration platform is the property of the contributing authors" 22:00 <@Lavr_> I think it is essential that we get a site rolling and quickly put a 4.2.4 there along with some new updates to popular plugins. 22:00 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+b peterthoeny!*@*] by MichaelDaum 22:00 -!- peterthoeny was kicked from #twiki_fork by MichaelDaum [User terminated!] 22:00 <@OliverKrueger> thx 22:01 < MayerEugen> Lucky Luke 22:01 <@gmc> we should reply to peter's last email on twiki-dev ml, to the extent that there is an alternative 22:01 <@OliverKrueger> no. 22:01 <@CDot1> Lavr_: yes. I'm slightly annoyed that I just checked in a big batch of fixes to PublishContrib. I wouldn't have if I'd known this was going to happen. 22:02 <@OliverKrueger> We have the addresses. 22:02 <@Lavr_> Not even my darkest fantasy could have guessed this level of professionel stupidity happen. 22:02 <@gmc> Lavr_: fwiw, i told you so? :) 22:03 <@Lavr_> Sure clever guy ;-) 22:03 <@MichaelDaum> CDot1, I was on strike for long enuf 22:03 <@CDot1> you are all so smart, well done. 22:03 <@MichaelDaum> :( 22:03 <@CDot1> now put some energy into making something good come of this. 22:04 <@MichaelDaum> we will have lots of fun again 22:04 <@OliverKrueger> sure that! :D 22:04 <@Lavr_> I am looking up one name after the other that I come up with and they are all taken. I need to change my brain away from bullshit words 22:05 <@Lavr_> Power, Pro, Open, Free, Colab, Empower- Wiki all taken 22:05 <@gmc> Lavr_: there's an entire industry devoted on taking those 22:05 <@Lavr_> What had you guys been working on? You said you had ideas. 22:05 <@MichaelDaum> can I take the mandate to talk to a professional copyrighter to develop a new name? 22:05 <@gmc> cdot went wild with the gaelic dictionary 22:06 <@CDot1> Lynnwood suggested one I liked: "Kith". It means "familiar friends, neighbours, or relatives" and has a double meaning - it is almost a homophone of KISS. 22:06 <@MichaelDaum> Let's start this new project as professional as possible 22:06 < drew_stevenson> what happened to nextwiki? 22:06 <@Lavr_> nextwiki is a registered trademark 22:06 < drew_stevenson> my boss walked by and called it a winner 22:07 < drew_stevenson> oh 22:07 <@OliverKrueger> The platform will take a while... Eugen is installed an OS now... 22:07 < drew_stevenson> well there you have it 22:07 <@OliverKrueger> s/installed/Installing/ 22:07 <@uebera||> What's the hawaiian word for "structured"? ;) 22:07 < MayerEugen> ballaballa 22:08 * OliverKrueger prefers kith. ;) 22:08 <@OliverKrueger> are the domains still available for such a short url? 22:08 <@OliverKrueger> nope. 22:09 <@OliverKrueger> no matter what we take, it should be short. 22:09 <@uebera||> "StructuredWiki"? 22:09 <@uebera||> Yeah, not that short... 22:10 <@OliverKrueger> hack that 10 times into your keyboard! ;) 22:10 < MayerEugen> what plugins do we need out of the box ? 22:10 <@OliverKrueger> none 22:10 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@dslc-082-082-098-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 22:10 <@OliverKrueger> We can install plugins later. 22:10 < MayerEugen> fine. 22:11 <@uebera||> StructuredWiki -> StrucWiki -> Struki? (sounds like Struppi :)) 22:11 <@gmc> struki? sounds liek a cheap CCCP car brand or something to me :) 22:11 <@CDot1> suki 22:11 -!- Soronthar [n=chatzill@200.7.112.53] has joined #twiki_fork 22:12 < Soronthar> hi... forkers... 22:12 <@OliverKrueger> Hi Raf 22:12 <@gmc> hey there :) 22:12 < MayerEugen> usr/local/etc 22:12 < Soronthar> what did I miss? 22:12 < MayerEugen> CRAZY BSD 22:12 <@uebera||> I'd try to come up with a name that reflects one of the characteristics/strengths of the system... 22:13 <@OliverKrueger> I will try to attach the #twiki_release logs to the topic on t.o. 22:13 <@gmc> bsd is tha bomb 22:13 <@gmc> is peter already sanitizing the codev? 22:13 < Soronthar> OliverKrueger... you can't right now 22:14 <@gmc> Soronthar: what's going on? 22:15 < Soronthar> untill you agree on the term of use, and a TWiki Admin put you back in TWikiCommunityGroup, you cannot do any edit on t.o besides your homepage 22:15 <@OliverKrueger> oic 22:15 <@CDot1> and did you? 22:15 < Soronthar> terms of use are fair enoug... I just opted in to measure the response time. 22:15 <@gmc> so basically we are all locked out.. nice 22:16 < Soronthar> yep 22:16 < Wolf_Marbach> hey its funny i uploaded my firts plugin yesterday and cannot edit anymore 22:17 < Wolf_Marbach> This is exactly how I learned doing business with US companies (no affront Lynnwood, I know there are nice guys, too :) ) 22:17 < Soronthar> I kind of like the new skin "design provided by TWIKI.NET" 22:18 <@gmc> Soronthar: you're being sarcastic now, no? 22:18 <@uebera||> But you need more than 1024 pixels to see that properly, else the note is coverd by the jump/search bars ;) 22:19 <@uebera||> s /coverd/covered/ 22:19 <@uebera||> (at least w/ Firefox 3.0.1) 22:19 < Soronthar> yeah, I notice that 22:20 -!- eset [n=adam@cpe-66-108-116-109.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #twiki_fork 22:21 < drew_stevenson> hey does this mean *wiki will finally have upgrade scripts etc? :) 22:21 < Soronthar> nice speed... i'm a proud member of the TWikiCommunityGroup again... perhaps my irate email had something to do with it. 22:21 <@CDot1> drew_stevenson: sure. If you write them ;-) 22:21 <@gmc> Soronthar: you mean, you're a proud membe rof the TWikiDotnetCommunityGroup :) 22:22 < Soronthar> I assume that the carpet was sweep under our feet without warning, then? 22:22 <@CDot1> y 22:22 < drew_stevenson> CDot1; touch'e 22:24 <@gmc> i should be off to bed soonish.. i'm quite feverish and have a drivers license exam tomorrow (again) 22:26 <@CDot1> gmc: just remember; green = go, amber = go very fast, red = go on, just three more cars then 22:26 <@gmc> :) 22:26 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g226088026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #twiki_fork 22:27 < LarsEik> Peter is actively using facebook also.. "advertising" for the relaunch. 22:27 < MayerEugen> CDot1: hehe :) 22:27 < MayerEugen> "deadLUNCH" :) 22:28 <@uebera||> gmc: ...and left is where your thumb's right ;) 22:29 <@CDot1> gmc: so, do we have a wiki? 22:29 < MayerEugen> on my way 22:29 < MayerEugen> domainthings left 22:30 <@gmc> MayerEugen: put it under nextwiki for now? 22:30 < MayerEugen> i dont mind, but as i said 22:30 <@gmc> move the old nextwiki config out of the way, and add it as a ServerAlias in the other conf 22:30 < MayerEugen> a twikifork.org with just a message could be usefull 22:30 < MayerEugen> we dont use it as a name, but as a information page 22:30 <@gmc> people are eager to type away in that fresh new wiki :) 22:31 < drew_stevenson> one of the first things you can do is have a naming contest 22:31 < Soronthar> I can provide a subdomain to soronthar.com until a name is decided. 22:32 -!- krk [n=krk@adsl-66-218-47-115.dslextreme.com] has joined #twiki_fork 22:33 <@OliverKrueger> I need some food now. Be back in 45mins. 22:33 <@gmc> i'm grabbing twikifork.org, we'll use that until we have a new name or peter sues us 22:33 < MayerEugen> Soronthar: i would like a really neutral domain, neutral as possible an clear "temporally" 22:34 < eset> wikiT.org? 22:34 < MayerEugen> not bad eset 22:34 <@OliverKrueger> just take any. its temporarily. 22:34 < eset> also good for wiki Two.0 22:34 < Wolf_Marbach> TeeWiki 22:35 -!- SvenDowideit [n=SvenDowi@twiki/developer/SvenDowideit] has joined #twiki_fork 22:35 -!- SvenDowideit changed the topic of #twiki_fork to: http://nextwiki.org ? 22:35 <@Lavr_> Welcome to the new world 22:35 <@CDot1> OK, the team formerly known as the IGT has just had a skype call 22:35 < SvenDowideit> i fell very sorry for you optimistic peoples 22:36 <@CDot1> we don;t have a mandate to act as a leadership group, but we had to wrap the business of TWiki 22:36 < SvenDowideit> I have to read the nite's irc 22:36 <@CDot1> SvenDowideit: do you have all the logs you need? 22:36 < SvenDowideit> yes, and to post a summary both on t.o and publically 22:36 < SvenDowideit> i think so 22:36 < MayerEugen> CDot1: We and YU are building a fork. No need for to much mandates in here.. 22:36 <@CDot1> great 22:37 <@CDot1> MayerEugen: agreed. 22:37 < SvenDowideit> now to work out howto sell this to my clients 22:37 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: i dont think you can put something on t.o anymore 22:37 < SvenDowideit> mmm 22:37 < Soronthar> I can :) 22:37 <@Lavr_> Sven you have to say "Heil Peter" to post on TWiki.org the regular way. We have all lost our accounts on d.t.o by the way- 22:37 < MayerEugen> Soronthar: you bad guy you :) 22:37 < SvenDowideit> we have? 22:37 < SvenDowideit> what about on d.t.o 22:38 < SvenDowideit> ok 22:38 < SvenDowideit> bigger issue 22:38 <@Lavr_> Please try your access also 22:38 < SvenDowideit> cna the igt please send an email to jon of sin 22:38 < SvenDowideit> sun 22:38 <@CDot1> SvenDowideit: my password has been changed on d.t.o. No idea about yours. 22:38 < SvenDowideit> and ask if they are happy to have t.n missappropriate the servers donated to the real t.o community? 22:38 <@CDot1> I can still get in using ssh keys, but obviously no sudo 22:39 < Soronthar> if you want to stir thing up while leaving, I suggest the IGN to send a public letter to the T.N investors... 22:39 < SvenDowideit> interesting 22:39 <@CDot1> I suggest you stop suggesting things for other people to do 22:39 < SvenDowideit> i can't get in with either ssh keys nor pwd 22:39 < SvenDowideit> CDot1, ok 22:40 < Soronthar> brb 22:40 <@CDot1> SvenDowideit: maybe I hit it just as the pws were changed, i dunno. 22:40 <@Lavr_> When is our last backup from? 22:40 < SvenDowideit> last night 22:40 <@CDot1> good enough 22:40 < SvenDowideit> (checking) 22:41 <@Lavr_> You have that? Good. Then the damage is minimal 22:41 < SvenDowideit> I'll set them both up on DH today 22:41 < SvenDowideit> legacy.nextwiki.org 22:41 < SvenDowideit> and bugs.nextwiki.org :) 22:42 <@Lavr_> We need a different name than nextwiki soon (for your info) - nextwiki is a registered trademark. 22:42 < Wolf_Marbach> NexTwiki? 22:42 < SvenDowideit> y, its a placeholder 22:43 <@gmc> and/or twikifork.org 22:43 < SvenDowideit> have you got those domains? 22:43 < SvenDowideit> they'd be useful for media 22:45 <@gmc> which ones? 22:45 < SvenDowideit> twikifork 22:46 < drew_stevenson> I'm sure it's trademarked but google doesn't find anything for "starwiki" (it's a meh name but I thought I'd share before going home" 22:46 < drew_stevenson> see I can't even use quotes right anymore... 22:46 < SvenDowideit> grin 22:47 < SvenDowideit> almost 10am, and i'm ready for a good lie down 22:47 < drew_stevenson> 5:47 CST 22:47 <@gmc> f*ck.. 22:47 < drew_stevenson> er 17:47 22:47 < drew_stevenson> for the kids 22:47 < SvenDowideit> gads and good luck 22:48 <@Lavr_> Yeah that is serious. Good luck 22:48 < drew_stevenson> same. be careful. 22:49 < drew_stevenson> night folks 22:49 < SvenDowideit> nite 22:49 -!- drew_stevenson [n=etherbob@x-128-101-84-245.dhcp.umn.edu] has quit [] 22:49 < SvenDowideit> wow to the privacy policy 22:50 <@CDot1> SvenDowideit: did you sign? 22:50 < SvenDowideit> why would i? 22:53 < Wolf_Marbach> what privacy policy 22:54 < SvenDowideit> http://twiki.org/cgi-bin/view/TWiki/TWikiPrivacyStatement#foo_1 22:54 < Wolf_Marbach> thanks sven 22:57 < MayerEugen> what the hell is wrong with the VI under freebsd.. 22:57 -!- sayotte [n=sayotte@74.2.227.21] has joined #twiki_fork 22:58 * sayotte groans 22:58 <@uebera||> MayerEugen: emacs is your friend... :p 22:58 < MayerEugen> emacs is not my friend at all. !!!! 22:59 <@uebera||> Ah, I see... you're one of "them"... ;) 23:00 < MayerEugen> we get you ... :=) 23:00 * uebera|| needs to catch some sleep... cu (the bouncer will keep on watching, though) :) 23:00 < MayerEugen> gn8 23:00 <@uebera||> gn8... and good luck (to all of us) 23:03 < SvenDowideit> mmm, 'was moving toward a "Debian" style of governance, which we do not believe would be healthy for the long run' 23:04 < MayerEugen> yeah i asked him on that sven 23:04 < MayerEugen> he ignored it first 23:04 < MayerEugen> then he decided to explain it with the "chart", which implicates: Debina must be crap, so its licence is crap, so twiki should not use it 23:10 < SvenDowideit> mmm, sounds like we could get mark s to give us a quote 23:10 < SvenDowideit> if we organise debian like 23:12 < sayotte> hmm 23:12 < sayotte> is there any model of a successful fork that could be studied 23:12 < sayotte> a successful fork of a GPLed package that is 23:12 < SvenDowideit> yes, there are 23:12 < sayotte> I am thinking egcc 23:12 < SvenDowideit> joomla's a classic 23:12 < sayotte> ok 23:13 < SvenDowideit> 99% of what we need is competent media 23:13 < SvenDowideit> and the other 1% is a really really cool new release 23:13 <@OliverKrueger> /. 23:13 < SvenDowideit> not just /. 23:14 < SvenDowideit> but yes, flipping a /. post today will be worth something 23:14 <@OliverKrueger> nope. 23:14 <@OliverKrueger> we need a new home and a name, first. 23:14 < SvenDowideit> no 23:14 < SvenDowideit> /. post today - comercial company takes over t.o 23:15 < SvenDowideit> ie, neutral observer news report 23:15 < SvenDowideit> post next week of launch of the real t.o renamed to blahblahla.org 23:15 -!- MichaelDaum is now known as MichaelDaum_ 23:16 < SvenDowideit> are you guys subscribed to the nextwiki mailing list? 23:16 < MayerEugen> who wants admin access to the new twiki-fork page for configure ? 23:16 < sayotte> no 23:16 <@OliverKrueger> y 23:16 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: yes 23:16 < sayotte> You don't have permission to access / on this server. 23:16 < sayotte> oh, trailing slash 23:16 -!- SvenDowideit changed the topic of #twiki_fork to: http://nextwiki.org/ ? 23:17 <@MichaelDaum_> http://nextwiki.org/ -> 403 23:17 < SvenDowideit> poohead 23:17 <@OliverKrueger> http://nextwiki.org/bin/view/Main/ 23:17 < SvenDowideit> that works? 23:17 <@OliverKrueger> you should know the deeplinks. ;) 23:17 < MayerEugen> Guys iam still trying, freeBSD gives me hard times with all that 23:17 <@OliverKrueger> pub is missing, I guess. 23:18 < MayerEugen> /usr/local bashing 23:18 < sayotte> ha, buhroken 23:18 < SvenDowideit> god, i can't remember if thats gmc's version or my server 23:18 < SvenDowideit> it'll be fixed today 23:19 -!- SvenDowideit changed the topic of #twiki_fork to: http://nextwiki.sf.net http://nextwiki.org/ ? 23:19 < SvenDowideit> http://sourceforge.net/mail/?group_id=238602 23:22 < sayotte> thanks, subscribed 23:27 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: Options ExecCGI is off in this directory: /home/twikifork.org/pub/TWiki/TWikiJavascripts/twikilib.js 23:27 <@CDot1> shit, now I'm not going to be able to sleep. Dammit. 23:28 < MayerEugen> any ideas, what this server needs? 23:28 < MayerEugen> why is it even tryint to use a CGI to access 23:29 <@CDot1> twiki.net would love it if they got /.'ed today. Would do their google ranking no harm at all. 23:29 <@CDot1> gotta sleep. cya. 23:29 -!- CDot1 [n=crawford@crawfordcurrie.plus.com] has left #twiki_fork [] 23:30 <@OliverKrueger> bye C. 23:30 < MayerEugen> Bye 23:30 < MayerEugen> /.' = changerooted? 23:30 <@OliverKrueger> /. = slashdot 23:30 < MayerEugen> was meint er damit ? 23:31 <@OliverKrueger> the "news portal". 23:33 < MayerEugen> ich bekomm das grad einfach nicht hin 23:33 -!- Lavr [n=nospam@cpe.atm2-0-103309.0x3ef3d076.albnxx13.customer.tele.dk] has joined #twiki_fork 23:33 < SvenDowideit> MayerEugen, no, i dunno 23:35 < SvenDowideit> oh fuck. turns out we may have to go buy a new car - the one we have has bad anchor points for kids seats 23:35 < SvenDowideit> and with twins, we need more boot slace 23:35 < SvenDowideit> space 23:35 < SvenDowideit> yay, 23:36 <@OliverKrueger> SvenDowideit: You forked? ;) 23:36 < SvenDowideit> ya 23:36 <@OliverKrueger> congrats. :) 23:36 < SvenDowideit> due march 23:36 <@OliverKrueger> when? 23:36 <@OliverKrueger> oic. :) 23:36 < SvenDowideit> and there's 2 new processes! 23:36 <@OliverKrueger> bug or feature? 23:37 < SvenDowideit> feature 23:37 <@OliverKrueger> :) 23:37 < SvenDowideit> very feature :) 23:37 -!- MichaelDaum_ [n=micha@dslb-082-083-134-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:37 < SvenDowideit> ok, so we want to find a way to get a takeover putch /. pst that doesn't link to t.o or t.n 23:38 -!- Lavr_ [n=donotlik@cpe.atm2-0-103309.0x3ef3d076.albnxx13.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 23:39 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: congrats 23:39 < SvenDowideit> scary huh :) 23:40 < MayerEugen> http://nextwiki.org/bin/view 23:40 -!- MichaelDaum_ [n=micha@dslb-082-083-134-003.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #twiki_fork 23:40 < MayerEugen> ok i rape gmc for his config 23:40 < MayerEugen> i will vote for only debian servers for the new project! 23:41 < MayerEugen> ok, no i need to alias / to bin/view or? 23:41 < MayerEugen> *now 23:42 <@OliverKrueger> RedirectMatch ^/$ http://nextwiki.org/bin/view/Main/WebHome 23:42 < MayerEugen> thanks 23:42 <@OliverKrueger> Pls create a Codev web or sth like that. 23:42 < SvenDowideit> please use proper words 23:42 <@OliverKrueger> Its easier to migrate a fresh web, if we want to 23:43 <@OliverKrueger> proper words? 23:43 < SvenDowideit> y, not some shite like 'Codev' 23:43 <@OliverKrueger> oic 23:43 < SvenDowideit> and we start with shorterUrl's from day one 23:43 <@OliverKrueger> +1 23:44 < SvenDowideit> mmmm, i guess i should get my kino thing working so we have v fast search 23:44 < MayerEugen> post that on ShortUrlFromDayOnPlease Sven 23:44 < SvenDowideit> and hook that up to search is jump 23:44 <@OliverKrueger> MayerEugen: I will look up the shortUrl recipe. one moment pls 23:44 < SvenDowideit> why not simplify 23:44 < SvenDowideit> its 3 lines of rewriteurl 23:44 < SvenDowideit> and one cfg param 23:44 < MayerEugen> now i need to get out why this crap server roots nextwiki.org/ to the default host... 23:44 <@OliverKrueger> yes, but I cannot remember them. ;) 23:44 < SvenDowideit> no pointless topic hanging around for the next 10 years 23:45 < SvenDowideit> (i'd rather use a tasks/bugs system for it) 23:46 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: send your public key to mayer AT impressive-media.de 23:46 < MayerEugen> i give you root access to the machine. I know that gmc would have done that anyway 23:50 < SvenDowideit> mmm, are you sure he hasn't? 23:50 < SvenDowideit> i know i sent him one at some stage 23:51 < MayerEugen> sec 23:51 < SvenDowideit> and wa-la, i is root 23:51 < SvenDowideit> :} 23:51 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: there are 3 keys, one for me, one for svenReher and one for gmc. so you will be missing i guess 23:52 < SvenDowideit> interesting 23:52 < SvenDowideit> cos i just ssh root@nextwiki.org 23:52 < SvenDowideit> and am in 23:52 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: are you sven@quad? 23:52 < SvenDowideit> yup 23:52 < MayerEugen> ah ok, so its you not svenreher 23:53 <@OliverKrueger> bin/register runs into 500. 23:53 < SvenDowideit> ya 23:53 < SvenDowideit> yay :( 23:53 < MayerEugen> sec 23:53 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit / OliverKrueger|aw do you need configure access? 23:53 <@OliverKrueger> not now 23:54 < SvenDowideit> i will eventually 23:54 < SvenDowideit> I'll install BugsContrib so we can co-ordinate our worx 23:55 < SvenDowideit> or you can if you like :) 23:55 < MayerEugen> please go on :) 23:55 < SvenDowideit> i'll be a few hours before i have time 23:56 < MayerEugen> sven can i enter your email as webmaster or should i take mine or even better gmc`s? 23:56 < SvenDowideit> use the nextwiki mailing list 23:56 < SvenDowideit> (i wonder if that'll work 23:56 <@OliverKrueger> there is a mailadress in the 500 error message. ;) 23:57 <@OliverKrueger> there was 23:58 < MichaelDaum_> http://nextwiki.org/pub/TWiki/TWikiJavascripts/twikilib.js -> 500 Internal Server Error 23:59 < Soronthar> I can see it ok... 23:59 < SvenDowideit> I get zero pub files --- Day changed Tue Oct 28 2008 00:00 < MayerEugen> MichaelDaum_: works for me ? 00:00 < SvenDowideit> they're all 500 for me 00:00 < MayerEugen> hm 00:00 <@OliverKrueger> after Shift-Reload, for me, too. 00:01 <@OliverKrueger> that worked in the meantime. 00:01 <@OliverKrueger> MayerEugen: Did you add my shorturl rewritings correctly? 00:01 < MichaelDaum_> nite, sleeping already 00:01 <@OliverKrueger> nite, Michael 00:01 < MayerEugen> n8 micha 00:01 < MayerEugen> (13)Permission denied: exec of '/home/twikifork.org/pub/TWiki/TWikiDocGraphics/web-bg.gif' failed, referer: http://nextwiki.org/bin/view/Main/TWikiGuest 00:03 < MayerEugen> i used "Scriptalias /pub" 00:03 < MayerEugen> god bless me 00:03 <@OliverKrueger> that wrong 00:03 <@OliverKrueger> +s 00:03 < MayerEugen> i know 00:03 < MayerEugen> but your Alias / "/home/domains/wiki.oliverkrueger.de/bin/view/" 00:03 < MayerEugen> should be wrong also 00:03 < MayerEugen> ok pubs working 00:04 < MayerEugen> with the shorturl we dont need the redirect i guess 00:04 < SvenDowideit> oh poo, he didn't install WidgetSkin 00:04 <@OliverKrueger> who? 00:05 < MayerEugen> http://www.nextwiki.org/ 00:05 < MayerEugen> ok this looks good 00:05 < SvenDowideit> gmc 00:05 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: thats my installation, i started from fresh 00:05 < SvenDowideit> oh :( 00:05 < MayerEugen> thats the current stable 4.2.3 00:05 < SvenDowideit> ah :( 00:05 < SvenDowideit> ok, so you're not using a co from svn.nextwiki.org 00:05 < SvenDowideit> ok 00:06 < MayerEugen> what is svn.nextwiki.org 00:06 < MayerEugen> kind of setup of your twikis? 00:06 < MayerEugen> i mean, we can still use it 00:06 < SvenDowideit> it was an initial commit of (i think ) 4.2.2 or so 00:07 < MayerEugen> i thought better use 4.2.3? 00:07 < SvenDowideit> we should use 4.2.4 00:07 < SvenDowideit> ie, svn 4.2 branch 00:07 < SvenDowideit> as there are alot of fixes 00:07 < MayerEugen> then get it :) 00:07 < SvenDowideit> i'll have to sync to svn.nextwiki.org 00:07 < SvenDowideit> and then check that out on nextwiki.org 00:07 <@OliverKrueger> g'nite, cu tommorow 00:07 < SvenDowideit> ok, so lots todo 00:07 < SvenDowideit> nite 00:07 < MayerEugen> n8 Oliver 00:08 < SvenDowideit> i have to go do other things first thou 00:08 < MayerEugen> i try to fix all that apache related stuff 00:08 < Soronthar> svn.nextwiki.org has only trunk? 00:09 < Soronthar> never mind, dumb question 00:09 < MayerEugen> just go for the ~/twikifork.org dir to install SvenDowideit 00:09 < MayerEugen> guys, when you access 00:10 < MayerEugen> http://nextwiki.org 00:10 < MayerEugen> do you the defaul apache "helo world" side? 00:10 < MayerEugen> *site 00:10 < Soronthar> nope 00:10 < Soronthar> This site is running TWiki version TWiki-4.2.3, Wed, 06 Aug 2008, build 17396, Plugin API version 1.2 00:11 < Soronthar> oh, crap... we would need to go all over again the logo process... noooooooooo! 00:11 < MayerEugen> http://twikifork.org/ 00:11 < MayerEugen> also working now 00:11 < MayerEugen> Could you change the topic SvenDowideit 00:12 -!- OliverKrueger is now known as OliverKrueger|aw 00:14 <@Lynnwood> here's a name for a twiki fok: 00:14 <@Lynnwood> ikiwt 00:14 <@Lynnwood> close to ikwit 00:15 <@Lynnwood> say it fast :-) 00:15 < MayerEugen> i cant even write it :) 00:17 -!- eset [n=adam@cpe-66-108-116-109.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:17 < Soronthar> see ya all... 00:18 < SvenDowideit> laters :) 00:19 < MayerEugen> laters 00:19 < MayerEugen> ok registration is fixed now 00:19 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: could you give me op please 00:20 < SvenDowideit> i don't have op... 00:21 < MayerEugen> hmm 00:21 < MayerEugen> sreher: uebera|| Lynnwood one of you around =? 00:21 <@Lynnwood> y 00:21 <@Lynnwood> just reading up 00:22 * Lynnwood looking back hoping to catch Sven's first comments of the day :-) 00:22 <@Lynnwood> after reading the morning headlines 00:23 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: could you please give me op or just set the domain twikifork.org into the topic 00:23 <@Lynnwood> say what? 00:23 <@Lynnwood> i did get twikifork. didn't i see note that gmc did? 00:24 < MayerEugen> iam confued about your sentence, you have to repeat with great respect to my broken english 00:25 < MayerEugen> login fixed 00:25 <@sreher> yea - sorry. I have an private incident 00:26 <@sreher> very bad timing 00:26 <@sreher> where can i help? 00:26 -!- SvenDowideit changed the topic of #twiki_fork to: http://nextwiki.sf.net http://twikifork.org/ http://nextwiki.org/ ? 00:26 < SvenDowideit> sreher, don't stress 00:26 < SvenDowideit> its sleepy time 00:26 < MayerEugen> sreher: no problem, we are close to done with the first release 00:27 <@sreher> fine 00:27 < SvenDowideit> makes it feel good that i was too lazy to fix the big bugs in twiki that a client found yesterday :/ 00:27 < SvenDowideit> rewarded for sloth :( 00:28 < SvenDowideit> it looks like SEARCH has been broken for a while 00:28 < MayerEugen> Base class package "HTML::Parser" is empty. 00:28 < MayerEugen> great 00:28 < SvenDowideit> its an easy install :) 00:29 < SvenDowideit> you 'just' need make & gcc 00:29 <@sreher> what is the status? 00:29 < MayerEugen> dont do that luke, you can use cpan 00:30 < MayerEugen> why dont all people on earth use debain 00:30 < SvenDowideit> because mono-culture is bad 00:31 < MayerEugen> but 00:31 < MayerEugen> iam always right.. 00:32 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: do you have a list of perl modules 4.2.3 needs to be installed? 00:32 < MayerEugen> or is there is script to check the deps 00:32 < SvenDowideit> configure should tell you 00:32 < SvenDowideit> but HTTP::Parser is pretty much it on solaris 00:32 < MayerEugen> it did not, so it might missing it 00:32 < MayerEugen> ok edit fixed 00:35 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: are there any good skins without the TWiki logo ? 00:35 < MayerEugen> any newer ones or similar 00:35 < AndreU> Eugen, I like to deploy a domain search script on the new platform 00:35 < SvenDowideit> MayerEugen, yes 00:35 < MayerEugen> AndreU: what do we need for that? 00:35 < SvenDowideit> WidgetSkin is in nextwiki svn 00:36 < SvenDowideit> AndreU, i'll be adding kino asap 00:36 < SvenDowideit> with integration into SEARCH 00:36 < AndreU> a normal twiki topic and I just finished a small .pl script 00:36 < AndreU> SvenDowideit, nice 00:36 < MayerEugen> ok, SvenDowideit what is the exact repo? i just get the skin 00:36 < SvenDowideit> svn.nextwiki.org i think 00:36 < MayerEugen> AndreU: is your domain search in addition to the kino-serach ? 00:36 < AndreU> haha 00:37 < AndreU> it is a domain-name search 00:37 < AndreU> so we can use it for a joint effort on searching a decent name 00:37 < MayerEugen> oh, now i get it 00:38 < MayerEugen> good morning eugen 00:38 < AndreU> :-) 00:38 < Wolf_Marbach> Guys are you ever going to sleep tonight??? 00:38 < MayerEugen> just register Andre, send me the *.pl script 00:38 < SvenDowideit> poo buggers 00:38 < SvenDowideit> thats the pl for? 00:38 < AndreU> it just asks whois 00:39 < AndreU> it also possible to do it via js, but you have to tune your FF 00:41 <@sreher> so it seems to me, that you need no more help? 00:41 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: ?skin=WidgetSkin ? 00:42 < SvenDowideit> sreher, we'll need lots :) 00:42 < SvenDowideit> skin=widget 00:42 < MayerEugen> sreher: you can help the whole night :) 00:42 < SvenDowideit> but i recon sleeping on it will help us all too 00:42 < MayerEugen> hmm, strange, not working 00:42 < MayerEugen> is there a kind of "allow this skins" in 4.2.x ? 00:43 < SvenDowideit> nope 00:43 <@sreher> yea, I sak but i don't get an answer... 00:43 < SvenDowideit> duh 00:43 < SvenDowideit> MayerEugen, skin=widgets 00:43 < SvenDowideit> .s. 00:44 < SvenDowideit> sreher, i think we're too disorganised atm 00:44 < MayerEugen> http://twikifork.org/bin/view//TWiki/WidgetsSkin?skin=widgets 00:44 <@sreher> when there is something, that i can do now, please say otherwise i will get to bad and sleep. 00:44 < MayerEugen> the topic is there, pub is there 00:44 < MayerEugen> now i even copy the templates. Iam just stupid. 00:44 < SvenDowideit> :} 00:44 < SvenDowideit> just going to http://twikifork.org/bin/view/TWiki/WidgetsSkin 00:45 < SvenDowideit> should show you the skin 00:45 <@sreher> SvenDowideit: it is ok 00:45 < SvenDowideit> in my case its asking for me to apache auth 00:45 < SvenDowideit> dunno why 00:45 < SvenDowideit> and it can't find the DefaultWidgets topic 00:45 < MayerEugen> yeah on my way 00:45 < SvenDowideit> so you're not using pseudo-install ? 00:46 < SvenDowideit> thats going to be messy :( 00:46 < AndreU> why not installing NatSkin? 00:46 < SvenDowideit> (personally i dont' want to depend on nat and all its dependancies) 00:46 < MayerEugen> so now its looking fine 00:47 < AndreU> its feature rich and also Carlo build on it for his layout 00:47 < SvenDowideit> widget is much simpler - it does not require all those other things 00:47 < MayerEugen> AndreU: we can use any skin people agree on. The only reason i changed the skin is the ugly log in the upper left 00:47 < SvenDowideit> ie - its too rich for a default 00:47 < AndreU> ok 00:47 < MayerEugen> log = logo 00:47 < SvenDowideit> nat is very nat specific 00:47 < AndreU> think carlo will help out in the future with this one 00:47 < MayerEugen> AndreU: i did not choose any, i just wanted the logo to disapear 00:48 < AndreU> Sven it is, but also very powerful 00:48 < SvenDowideit> twiki is already very powerful 00:48 < AndreU> Eugen, understand that 00:48 < AndreU> so what against a powerful skin? 00:48 < SvenDowideit> its a waste compared to making the core engine powerful 00:49 < AndreU> you would not skin a lion as a cat 00:49 < SvenDowideit> and building a lightweight skin that others can easily customise 00:49 < SvenDowideit> the problem has more to do with the other things you have to install for nat to work 00:49 < SvenDowideit> and how complex it is 00:50 < SvenDowideit> you can do all of what the nat env does without (admitedly by fixing twiki's peter-isms) 00:50 < SvenDowideit> and to boot - widgetskin is (as usual) just on tmpl file 00:50 < SvenDowideit> and uses MT css :) 00:51 < AndreU> I am sure we are able to cope with it, but I am fine with this solution for now 00:51 < Wolf_Marbach> nat can easily be adjusted and is at least for me a very good skin 00:51 < AndreU> eugen, you got a skype? 00:51 <@sreher> do you leave a todo list in the wiki - so i can catch tomorrow, today items to go on 00:52 < SvenDowideit> its pretty moot, 99% of what MichaelDaum_ was forced to add to extra plugins should move into the core anyway 00:52 < MayerEugen> AndreU: jop, but my gf is sleeping. If i start talking now, he will "sudo halt" me 00:52 < SvenDowideit> hehe 00:52 < Wolf_Marbach> Sven: that was my idea ;-) 00:52 < SvenDowideit> but nat is not simple 00:52 < MayerEugen> AndreU: i could call you on the phone and try to speak silently 00:52 -!- MichaelDaum__ [n=micha@dslb-082-083-152-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #twiki_fork 00:52 < SvenDowideit> for others to customise 00:52 < AndreU> no, I don't want to talk 00:52 < AndreU> I want to send you a file 00:53 < AndreU> :-) 00:53 < SvenDowideit> widget is probly simpler, as it uses moveabletype's layout 00:53 < SvenDowideit> but its very immature 00:53 < SvenDowideit> but it depends only on the core code 00:53 < Wolf_Marbach> I know nat is not simple but I used it every time and if you got to know it you love the variability 00:53 < MayerEugen> AndreU: -> pm 00:53 < SvenDowideit> forcing the dev work to happen in the core 00:54 < SvenDowideit> Wolf_Marbach, yes, if you set up more than one twiki 00:54 < SvenDowideit> _most_ users set up one 00:54 < MayerEugen> i remove the "TWiki powered" in the bottom 00:54 < SvenDowideit> and if its not simple to grok from that 00:54 < SvenDowideit> we're stuffed 00:54 < SvenDowideit> thats the big problem with pattern skin too 00:54 <@sreher> ok, i go to bed. good night 00:54 < SvenDowideit> nite :) 00:55 < AndreU> this copyright discussion about content on twiki.org is very silly 00:55 < Wolf_Marbach> Sven: You could make it a lot easier for firts timers, but until know you had to hget rid of pattern (the twikinetskin) 00:55 -!- sreher [n=SvenRehe@dslb-082-083-186-119.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [] 00:55 < AndreU> good to have content with the "old" copyright 00:56 < SvenDowideit> dunno - most of my clients 00:56 < SvenDowideit> seem to have customised pattern 00:56 < SvenDowideit> successfully 00:56 < SvenDowideit> before they hired me 00:56 < SvenDowideit> its different if you get hired to bring in a new twiki 00:56 < SvenDowideit> but i often do work for existing twiki's 00:56 < Wolf_Marbach> yes because that is what you get first, thus you don't try 00:57 < SvenDowideit> they do try 00:57 < SvenDowideit> and they do succeed 00:57 < Wolf_Marbach> I just reworked a twiki site from pattern to nat in a few hours 00:57 < Wolf_Marbach> and that was for IRD :_) 00:57 < SvenDowideit> its just as easy to rework it with other skins 00:57 < SvenDowideit> the point i'm making is that nat is as complex as pattern 00:57 < SvenDowideit> so its not an imrpovement 00:57 < SvenDowideit> its another same as pattern end 00:57 < SvenDowideit> those that know what they are doing have it easy 00:57 < SvenDowideit> and most users don't 00:58 < Wolf_Marbach> That is tru but more flexible. Perhaps we can make nat behave:-) 00:58 < SvenDowideit> i think its better to learn from those (very old) skins 00:58 < SvenDowideit> and learn from other web projects 00:58 < SvenDowideit> and build a new simpler skin 00:58 < SvenDowideit> with better core code support 00:58 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: could you register please 00:58 < SvenDowideit> no :) 00:58 < Wolf_Marbach> have to go for a walk now wife is calling - but you are right that will be a long process 00:58 < MayerEugen> or give me your desired name? 00:58 < SvenDowideit> not so long :) 00:58 < MayerEugen> "no" ? 00:59 < SvenDowideit> ga 01:00 < SvenDowideit> i hate webforms 01:00 < SvenDowideit> ok, registered 01:00 < SvenDowideit> mmm, can you make me an admin please 01:01 < SvenDowideit> that css choice is orrid 01:01 < MayerEugen> thats what i want 01:01 < MayerEugen> AndreU: OliverKrueger|aw you both are 01:02 < AndreU> ? 01:02 < AndreU> registered you mean? 01:02 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: do you no Michaels Email? if yes, could you register him with his email / a password you like 01:02 < MayerEugen> and give him the data. I want to make him an admin too, but i dont want someone to register with his name and use this in the meanwhile 01:02 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: do you need access? 01:02 < MayerEugen> uebera||: ? 01:03 < MayerEugen> Lavr: 01:03 < AndreU> pleas apply spam protection for email as soon as possible 01:03 < MayerEugen> AndreU: how do i do that? 01:03 < MayerEugen> plugin ? 01:03 < SvenDowideit> there's an antispam plugin - i wonder if it works 01:03 <@Lynnwood> what are we using nextwiki.org? 01:03 < SvenDowideit> seem to be useing both :) 01:04 < AndreU> hm, cannot find it 01:04 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: we are using both 01:04 < MayerEugen> i prefer twikifork.org 01:04 < SvenDowideit> i prefer nextwiki :) 01:04 < MayerEugen> but that one should be "information for fork" only. 01:05 < SvenDowideit> but i think twikifork is great for press 01:05 < MayerEugen> it should not be the name. nextwiki as name is used sven, its a registered trademark 01:05 < SvenDowideit> do we have .net & .com too? 01:05 < SvenDowideit> i agree that its not the name 01:05 -!- MichaelDaum_ [n=micha@twiki/developer/MichaelDaum] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:05 < SvenDowideit> its crap, even if it weren't tm'd 01:06 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: did you registered 01:06 <@Lynnwood> i thought twikifork for good squatting name also, til we find a name... 01:06 <@Lynnwood> no i will 01:06 <@Lynnwood> i don't need to be in admin group 01:06 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: twikifork is not a name, its just a google trick for people seaching. In addition, that thing is clearing out "what is forking" and in addition, that it is a temporally name AND its neutral at all 01:07 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: fine 01:07 < SvenDowideit> MayerEugen, exactly :) 01:07 < SvenDowideit> ooo, lookit that 01:07 < SvenDowideit> http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=1335135 01:07 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: for the first time, we need people help oranizing until the page works. Then, we take all the people ( like me ) out there 01:08 < SvenDowideit> wonder if it needs to be voted up 01:08 < SvenDowideit> i'll say it again :) i don't think we are forking 01:09 < SvenDowideit> we're renaming due to a putch by t.n 01:09 < MayerEugen> call it rename 01:09 < SvenDowideit> exactly 01:09 < MayerEugen> right now, its not a fork. Because nearly the whole dev team and the main community "forked" 01:09 < SvenDowideit> our press can quite legitimatly say t.n forked and stole the oss 01:09 < MayerEugen> so it seems what left on twiki is the "small part" 01:09 <@Lynnwood> i agree 01:09 < MayerEugen> my thoughts :) 01:09 < SvenDowideit> and that is what we need to write 01:10 < MayerEugen> did you write that post sven ? 01:10 < SvenDowideit> is it my writing style? 01:10 < MayerEugen> you might add "twikifork.org" to it 01:10 < SvenDowideit> no way 01:10 < SvenDowideit> thats /. post number 2 01:10 < SvenDowideit> in a week or so, when we have a story 01:11 < MayerEugen> kk 01:11 < SvenDowideit> first rule of shameless promotion 01:11 < SvenDowideit> 4 stories are better than one that covers all points 01:12 <@Lynnwood> OMG 01:12 <@Lynnwood> here's the domain: 01:12 < MayerEugen> ? 01:13 <@Lynnwood> notwiki.org 01:13 < MayerEugen> haha 01:13 <@Lynnwood> and it's available 01:13 < MayerEugen> that owns 01:13 < SvenDowideit> don't i own that already? 01:13 < SvenDowideit> :} 01:13 < SvenDowideit> .com&.org&.net? 01:13 <@Lynnwood> nope but i'm about to 01:15 <@Lynnwood> i think this is better than twikifork now 01:15 < MayerEugen> gotwiki is also nice 01:15 < SvenDowideit> very true 01:15 <@gmc> re 01:15 < MayerEugen> more positive then notwiki 01:16 <@Lynnwood> yes 01:16 <@gmc> so, do we have a wiki now? :) 01:16 < MayerEugen> ye 01:16 <@Lynnwood> i was still just playing off the publicity angle until we find a proper name 01:16 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g226088026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #twiki_fork [] 01:16 <@gmc> oeh we have and it is looking cosy 01:16 <@Lynnwood> i don't think we should be pushed into picking a permanent name 01:16 < MayerEugen> and i officially dislike freBSD for beein VI-destroying-finger-braking-long-init-scripts-paths- 01:17 <@gmc> use the tab, luke. 01:17 < MayerEugen> i used master, i used 01:17 -!- AndreU [n=AndreU@g226088026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #twiki_fork 01:17 < SvenDowideit> gmc, and a slashdot post - though i have no idea whats needed to get it on the front page 01:17 < MayerEugen> but what happended to vi ? 01:17 < MayerEugen> its totaly broken. 01:17 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: lots of karma 01:17 <@gmc> MayerEugen: broken? 01:18 < SvenDowideit> shame i have none 01:18 < MayerEugen> yeah, no visual mode 01:18 <@gmc> then you broke it, when i got back it worked.. 01:18 < MayerEugen> no insert mode ( shown ) backspace not working 01:18 <@gmc> oh ah.. you're probably used to vim .. 01:18 < MayerEugen> "del" not working 01:18 < MayerEugen> i really broke my arm on editing 01:18 < MayerEugen> please master, i need vim 01:18 < AndreU> what happened to the skin now? 01:19 < AndreU> switching between pink and woods? 01:19 < MayerEugen> AndreU: how do you mean? its still there 01:19 <@Lynnwood> gotwiki has a lot going for it 01:19 < SvenDowideit> pink? 01:19 < AndreU> pattern was pink 01:19 < AndreU> now I see a childish wood theme 01:19 < SvenDowideit> its 'dusk' 01:19 <@gmc> i like it :) 01:19 <@gmc> clear skies, green hills :) 01:19 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: i locked out my ass of the interface i can regsiter domains 01:20 < MayerEugen> i have to wait until serivce time, so arround 9 o clock to get my access 01:20 <@gmc> so now i can't migrate the content from my user page on twiki.org to twikifork because me own content is copyrighted by twiki.org now, uh? 01:20 < SvenDowideit> giggle 01:20 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: so you are up to register it :) 01:20 < SvenDowideit> MT has city scape css 01:20 < SvenDowideit> http://twikifork.org/bin/view/TWiki/WidgetsSkin?skin=widgets;Widgettopic=TWiki/WidgetsSampleDesign;designidx=1;cssfile=http://twikifork.org/pub/TWiki/WidgetsSkin/themes/cityscape-toronto/screen.css;cssidx=68;Widgetcolumns=tw;colsidx=2 01:20 < SvenDowideit> and then browse css files in decreasing numbers 01:20 < AndreU> whatsoever, but let it look more business like 01:21 <@Lynnwood> gotwiki.org is available but not gotwiki.com 01:21 < MayerEugen> we dont need com lyn 01:21 < MayerEugen> we only need org 01:21 < SvenDowideit> yes, we do 01:21 < MayerEugen> we do ? 01:21 < SvenDowideit> we need the set 01:21 <@Lynnwood> should i get notwiki? 01:21 < SvenDowideit> so that others can't squat on it like t.n has 01:21 < MayerEugen> notwiki is only a good joke, but its to negative 01:21 <@Lynnwood> y 01:22 <@Lynnwood> but our main use for it right now is AS a protest joke 01:22 <@Lynnwood> as in NOT that other wiki 01:22 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: and for that, its cool 01:22 <@Lynnwood> that shall not be named ;-) 01:23 <@Lynnwood> which could be the byline... 01:23 < MayerEugen> So guys, fill the starting page with proper english please 01:23 < MayerEugen> we could bling native speaker with my english 01:23 <@Lynnwood> i'm heading to be myself 01:23 < MayerEugen> i then i need to pay them for the rest of my life 01:23 <@gmc> do we have a statement of fork already? 01:23 < MayerEugen> no 01:23 < MayerEugen> i think not 01:24 <@gmc> and why didn't you edit peter's children out of the twiki web?? :)) 01:24 < SvenDowideit> no, and we shouldn't mention it as a fork 01:24 <@gmc> oh right.. don't mention the war.. 01:24 <@Lynnwood> yes, i agree with that principle 01:24 < SvenDowideit> its a rename forced by a failing startup 01:24 < MayerEugen> guys, i dont think the wikiring logo should be there in the bottom 01:24 <@Lynnwood> yep 01:24 < SvenDowideit> i agree 01:24 < MayerEugen> i fear pepole coul get it wrong 01:25 <@gmc> indeed.. 01:25 <@gmc> remove it plz 01:25 <@Lynnwood> absolutely 01:25 < MayerEugen> k 01:25 < SvenDowideit> do a find -wholename '*wikiring*' exec rm 01:25 < SvenDowideit> we'll work out how we fix it later 01:25 <@gmc> rename the TWiki web? or am i being anal now? 01:25 < SvenDowideit> not today 01:25 <@gmc> can i be bold and add myself to TWikiAdminGroup? 01:25 < SvenDowideit> we should do that in our svn 01:25 < MayerEugen> i guess i leave the "skin by" thingy? 01:25 <@Lynnwood> should i get these domains? notwiki.org/net/com gotwiki.org? 01:25 < SvenDowideit> yes 01:26 < MayerEugen> Lynnwood: yes 01:26 <@Lynnwood> all of those? 01:26 < SvenDowideit> MayerEugen, skin by - up to you atm 01:26 < SvenDowideit> i'm not yet in a place to do anything 01:26 <@Lynnwood> ok 01:26 < MayerEugen> gmc: i think for the first time, we need lots of trusted people there. But we have to remove ourselfes when the page "works" 01:27 < SvenDowideit> oh shite 01:27 < SvenDowideit> my uni is going to build a new university town 01:27 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: i hope you get it right. Its just a start page and if people se to much logos there, they might get the wrong idea 01:27 < SvenDowideit> i agree completely 01:27 < SvenDowideit> we want to be the opposite of t.n 01:28 < MayerEugen> exactly 01:28 < SvenDowideit> no duplicity at all 01:28 <@Lynnwood> ok i'm buying 01:28 -!- SvenDowideit changed the topic of #twiki_fork to: http://nextwiki.sf.net http://twikifork.org/ http://nextwiki.org/ .... we need a name, some art, and press 01:29 -!- SvenDowideit changed the topic of #twiki_fork to: http://nextwiki.sf.net http://twikifork.org/ http://nextwiki.org/ .... we need a name, some art, and press - oh, and a really big improvement over that other project as a next release 01:29 <@gmc> i'm off.. this has been a friggin long night.. 01:29 < SvenDowideit> nite gmc 01:29 < MayerEugen> nite 01:29 < SvenDowideit> anyone here own an iphone? 01:30 < SvenDowideit> we should make an iphone skin for buzz 01:30 < SvenDowideit> i have some really cool osx integrations planned 01:30 < SvenDowideit> mmm, i think i need to finish a few clients :( 01:31 < MayerEugen> i have replaced all the logos by : this is powered by the community! 01:31 < MayerEugen> good luck SvenDowideit 01:32 < MayerEugen> Can't locate LWP.pm -- 01:33 < SvenDowideit> oh? 01:33 < MayerEugen> what does that mean guys. What is that script, is it wiki internal or a perl lib ? 01:33 < SvenDowideit> ok, so freebsd is 'simple' 01:33 < SvenDowideit> CPAN 01:33 < SvenDowideit> install LWP 01:33 <@gmc> no 01:33 < SvenDowideit> and then Bundle::CPAN 01:33 < SvenDowideit> giggle 01:33 <@gmc> there's packages and ports for that, ludite! 01:33 < SvenDowideit> never heard of them :) 01:33 < SvenDowideit> is that anything like debs? 01:33 < MayerEugen> I HATE IT becaus IT HATES ME! 01:34 < SvenDowideit> hehe 01:34 <@gmc> MayerEugen: there's two options.. pkg_add -r p5-libwww i think.. or check under /usr/ports 01:34 < SvenDowideit> mmm, this is going to be a bitch, i still have to decide if i sign up to t.o 01:34 < SvenDowideit> even though 10 years of my life are there 01:35 < MayerEugen> SvenDowideit: that sounds so sad 01:35 <@gmc> SvenDowideit: you will sign up 01:39 < SvenDowideit> i fear i might 01:39 < SvenDowideit> just to get access to future versions of topics of my works 01:41 <@Lynnwood> SvenDowideit - i know exactly how you feel 01:41 <@Lynnwood> i'm very conflicted 01:41 <@Lynnwood> i going to let it sit for a while 01:41 < SvenDowideit> i'm pissed that i didn't spend more time getting to know media peopls 01:41 <@Lynnwood> but as it is, i can't even modify my consultant page... 01:42 <@Lynnwood> and that's the least of it 01:42 < SvenDowideit> crap, i'm not going to get anything productive done today 01:42 < Wolf_Marbach> Hi guys, on epossibility is to create a new user for all of you to access your work (but not the admin area) by using the same alias double 01:42 < SvenDowideit> and i didn't sleep all last night die to the weather 01:42 < SvenDowideit> thats not going to help, as my presense on twiki.org has lead to alot of reputation and business 01:43 <@Lynnwood> well i've got to get to sleep 01:43 < SvenDowideit> and peter's always been very agressive in killing aliases 01:43 < SvenDowideit> nite Lynnwood :) 01:43 <@Lynnwood> nite 01:43 <@Lynnwood> notwiki.org is alive 01:43 < MayerEugen> ++ Lynnwood 01:43 <@gmc> ok i'm really off now.. just edited the wiki homepage, shoot me while i'm sleeping :) 01:44 < MayerEugen> gmc: n8 01:44 < MayerEugen> good text gmc 01:46 <@Lynnwood> http://gotwiki.com 01:46 <@Lynnwood> http://notwiki.com 01:46 <@Lynnwood> http://notwiki.org 01:46 <@Lynnwood> http://notwiki.net 01:46 <@Lynnwood> opps 01:46 <@Lynnwood> http://gotwiki.org 01:49 < MayerEugen> agressive linking guys :) 01:49 < MayerEugen> there will be no way arround :) 01:49 < MayerEugen> i will place a banner on my companies site and will remove the "TWiki based" thing on my project description and add the new project name 01:51 < MayerEugen> ok people, good night 01:51 < SvenDowideit> nite :) 01:51 < MayerEugen> iam here back in some hours of sleep 01:51 < AndreU> good night all 01:51 < MayerEugen> what a sentence. Iam shocked of myself 01:55 -!- MayerEugen [n=EugenMay@dslb-092-074-254-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #twiki_fork ["Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org"] 02:03 -!- Soronthar_ [n=chatzill@190.77.68.103] has joined #twiki_fork 02:04 < Soronthar_> hi all 02:06 < Soronthar_> regarding the message in http://nextwiki.org/ et al: perhaps it should be better to clarify that the project is no longer free "as in speech" 02:08 < SvenDowideit> done :) 02:08 < SvenDowideit> are you registered there? 02:09 < Soronthar_> not yet. can I register now? 02:10 < SvenDowideit> looks like it y 02:10 < SvenDowideit> i'll toss you in the admin group once you have 02:10 < SvenDowideit> cos i have to go soon, and this time i'll actually be away 02:11 < SvenDowideit> wonder if we know anyone that can get an article into cio.com etc 02:11 < Soronthar_> done 02:12 < SvenDowideit> ok, you're a god too 02:13 < Soronthar_> The site should have a privacy statement and term of service. For legal sanity, if anything. 02:13 < Soronthar_> thanks 02:13 < SvenDowideit> y 02:13 < SvenDowideit> all that shite 02:19 < Soronthar_> well... I'l l go an play lineage II for the next hour or so... 02:19 -!- Soronthar_ [n=chatzill@190.77.68.103] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 2.0.0.17/2008082909]"] 02:24 -!- SvenDowideit_ [n=Sven@twiki/developer/SvenDowideit] has joined #twiki_fork 02:52 -!- GilmarSantosJr [n=GilmarSa@189.104.195.136] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:53 -!- GilmarSantosJr [n=GilmarSa@189.104.195.136] has joined #twiki_fork 03:04 < sayotte> SvenDowideit_: I own an iphone 03:05 < sayotte> haven't purchased either of the dev kits yet 04:35 < Wolf_Marbach> hi still somebody out there 05:07 -!- Wolf_Marbach [n=comconlt@125-238-209-207.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has quit [] 06:20 -!- LarsEik [n=lek@77.17.180.86.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:26 < SvenDowideit_> ok, i agree, freebsd is a pain in tha ass 06:26 < SvenDowideit_> 'no unzip installed' sheehs 06:49 <@uebera||> re 06:50 < SvenDowideit_> ro 06:56 <@uebera||> Once the others are back, I guess we could update the "history" section of http://{de,en,fr,...}.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWiki in a coordinated fashion (i.e., in parallel) at some point (only stating what happened yesterday for now). 06:57 < SvenDowideit_> agreed 07:17 -!- CDot [n=crawford@crawfordcurrie.plus.com] has joined #twiki_fork 07:18 < CDot> Good morning 07:18 < SvenDowideit_> heya 07:18 <@uebera||> Hi there, CDot. 07:19 < CDot> so, anything interesting happen in the last 8 hours? 07:19 < SvenDowideit_> no 07:19 < SvenDowideit_> i just got back from a big ride 07:19 < SvenDowideit_> prehaps i'm sane enough to not just post crap 07:19 < SvenDowideit_> i just installed bugsConibtr 07:19 < SvenDowideit_> and almost done setting up shorterurl 07:20 < SvenDowideit_> or not 07:20 < Lavr> Good morning. I am already working on the Association articles update. 07:21 < SvenDowideit_> wow :) 07:21 < Lavr> But have to stop now that I have to go to work. Good morning / afternoon 07:21 -!- MichaelDaum__ is now known as MichaelDaum 07:21 < SvenDowideit_> heya and have a better day at work 07:21 < MichaelDaum> good morning NextWikiCommunity 07:22 < Lavr> I am struggling a little with some of the KDE vocabolary that we are working from. 07:22 < SvenDowideit_> i'll bet - blooming germans :) 07:22 < Lavr> Especially the term by-laws. In US English by-laws is the same thing as the articles of the association. I want to use a different term for the day2day rules the board and community defines 07:23 < CDot> Lavr: why? Use pre-tested language wherever possible 07:24 < CDot> the document has to state what legal system it is to be interpreted under 07:24 < CDot> and should use the language of that system. 07:24 < Lavr> by-laws is not German. 07:24 < Lavr> It is a thing I have only seen in the KDE rule set. 07:24 < CDot> any sign of a new Plugins web yet? 07:25 < CDot> and a subversion repository that I am authorised to use? 07:25 < Lavr> The idea is good. But the name is confusing. At least for me. 07:25 < SvenDowideit_> svn.nextwiki.org is still there 07:25 < SvenDowideit_> but yes, there's not username syncing 07:25 < CDot> I take it you can't rsynch any more? 07:25 < Lavr> Well. Anyone - this is where I am as of now. http://merlin.lavrsen.dk/twiki42/bin/view/PFDC/RegulationsForTWikiAssociationKDEInspired 07:26 < SvenDowideit_> CDot, ish. 07:26 < Lavr> Will copy over to new website when the web is available 07:26 < CDot> Lavr: thanks, i will read again and comment 07:26 < SvenDowideit_> this morning there were still some inconsistencies in the security setup 07:26 < SvenDowideit_> Lavr, have you registered on nextwiki.org yet? 07:26 < SvenDowideit_> I'll add you to the admin group 07:26 < SvenDowideit_> once you have 07:26 < Lavr> No. Will do 07:27 < CDot> when I cancel login on nextwiki.org it doesn't take me to registration 07:28 < SvenDowideit_> yes, there's a big mess all over the joint 07:28 < SvenDowideit_> its using templatelogin _and_ apache auth 07:28 < SvenDowideit_> i don't know what eugen intended 07:28 < CDot> can I help sort it out at all? 07:28 < SvenDowideit_> yes :) 07:28 < CDot> how? 07:28 < SvenDowideit_> if you have an ssh key you can send me 07:29 < SvenDowideit_> i'll add you to the authorised_keys 07:29 < SvenDowideit_> one mo, i'll go see what type gmc needed 07:29 -!- MartinSeibert [i=4e357124@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4f2189ddce963acd] has joined #twiki_fork 07:29 < Lavr> Sven I am registered now 07:29 < MartinSeibert> Hi all 07:30 < MichaelDaum> Hi Martin. Good to see you back. 07:30 < SvenDowideit_> ssh-dss 07:30 < MartinSeibert> Some things seem to have cleared out, so to say. :-) 07:30 < CDot> SvenDowideit: keys, plural? 07:30 < SvenDowideit_> one 07:31 < CDot> identity.pub do you? 07:31 < SvenDowideit_> is that a gpg key? 07:31 < SvenDowideit_> we needs an ssh key 07:31 < MichaelDaum> well there's good news and bad news: the good news is we forked - the bad news is we forked ;) 07:31 < SvenDowideit_> we never forked :) 07:31 < SvenDowideit_> they forked 07:31 < SvenDowideit_> and kept the name 07:31 < MichaelDaum> fork them 07:31 < SvenDowideit_> meet the forkers? 07:31 < CDot> identity.pub is an ssh key 07:32 < CDot> also id_dsa.pub and id_rsa.pub 07:32 < SvenDowideit_> CDot, oh, /me uses more default names 07:32 < CDot> just depends what you want 07:32 < MichaelDaum> lets call it a divorce 07:32 < CDot> those are the names generated by genkeys, IIRC 07:32 < SvenDowideit_> id_dsa.pub looks to me to be my match 07:33 < CDot> gotcha. 07:33 < SvenDowideit_> i don't have an identity.pub 07:33 < SvenDowideit_> so /me is dumbdumb 07:34 < Lavr> On http://merlin.lavrsen.dk/twiki42/bin/view/PFDC/RegulationsForTWikiAssociationKDEInspired there is some green text. It is my signal to Jens Hansen and Andre U of what I changed since our last meeting. 07:34 < MichaelDaum> ssh1 07:34 < Lavr> See you later 07:34 < MichaelDaum> see u 07:34 < SvenDowideit_> laters 07:34 < SvenDowideit_> MichaelDaum, and CDot you also need to rego on twikifork.org 07:34 < MichaelDaum> thanks for the continuing work on the articles, Lavr 07:34 < SvenDowideit_> so i can make you larger than life 07:34 < SvenDowideit_> ok Lavr you're annointed 07:35 < MichaelDaum> gawd this is still a Twiki system 07:35 < SvenDowideit_> yes, it is 07:35 < SvenDowideit_> its not in svn either 07:35 < MichaelDaum> any DeTWikiPatch available already? 07:35 < SvenDowideit_> eugen installed a tarball :( 07:35 < SvenDowideit_> more importantly - whats our release timelines 07:35 < MichaelDaum> I want to get rid of anything TWiki in it 07:35 < SvenDowideit_> ok, Bugs web running 07:36 < SvenDowideit_> yes, we do 07:36 < SvenDowideit_> but i thought it best to do that in svn 07:36 < MichaelDaum> I need to train myself not to use the T word again 07:36 < SvenDowideit_> if you want to push faster :) 07:36 < MichaelDaum> ah 07:36 < MichaelDaum> is there a new svn, you hero? 07:36 < SvenDowideit_> gimme 10mins :) 07:36 < SvenDowideit_> i have to sync the htpasswd files etc 07:36 * MichaelDaum looks at his watch 07:37 < SvenDowideit_> doh :) 07:37 < MichaelDaum> no hurry, it is a broken watch 07:37 < SvenDowideit_> mmm, someone send the boy a working watch 07:37 -!- MartinSeibert [i=4e357124@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-4f2189ddce963acd] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"] 07:38 <@uebera||> here you go --> http://tools.arantius.com/stopwatch 07:38 < MichaelDaum> I need to rename any plugin that uses the T word in it 07:38 < SvenDowideit_> oh crud, whats my password 07:38 < SvenDowideit_> you have some? 07:38 < SvenDowideit_> bummer 07:38 < MichaelDaum> There wont be a TWikiWorkbench anymore 07:38 < MichaelDaum> we have to rename the TWikiForm to something else 07:39 < CDot> MichaelDaum: one step at a time; let's get a collaboration space working first, before we start re-engineering everything! 07:39 < SvenDowideit_> we need to rewrite the docco 07:39 < CDot> Great work on the site, BTW Sven, it looks very nice. 07:39 < MichaelDaum> s/TWiki/Wiki/go 07:39 < SvenDowideit_> its a begining 07:39 < SvenDowideit_> TWiki/DefaultWidgets is it interesting topic 07:40 <@uebera||> What will happen to TWiki.pm? Shall we rename it to Core.pm an provide a stub module? 07:40 < SvenDowideit_> betcha :) 07:40 < SvenDowideit_> meri's tags will live :) 07:41 < CDot> uebera||: when it comes to it, I'd like to pick a name that would allow us to release to CPAN 07:42 <@uebera||> +10 :) 07:42 < SvenDowideit_> it'll take more than a name 07:42 < SvenDowideit_> but agreed :) 07:45 < CDot> yes, of course. It'll take a significant refactoring, that will probably break TWiki.org's ability to merge changes into their source tree. But I could live with that. 07:46 < CDot> SvenDowideit: what do you want me to do first? Sort out the login? Build a Plugins web? Start a developer web? 07:46 < SvenDowideit_> CDot, whatever you like :) 07:46 < SvenDowideit_> use Bugs if you want to co-ord 07:47 < SvenDowideit_> ok, i'm dumb, but atm, svn.nextwiki.org is up for you guys that have rego'd on nextwiki.org 07:47 < CDot> ok. is there an up-to-date subversion I can use? 07:47 < SvenDowideit_> not that i know 07:48 < SvenDowideit_> thats the svn i played in a while abck - the only thing that matters in it is WidgetSkin 07:48 < SvenDowideit_> (as far as i know) 07:48 < SvenDowideit_> the next q i was going to ask was - do we want to use svn :) 07:48 < CDot> Hmm. I'd like the 'develop' infrastructure ASAP. 07:48 < SvenDowideit_> or be all modern and use git 07:48 < CDot> need it to prep a release 07:49 < SvenDowideit_> yes, i'm curious what and when we're gunna release 07:49 < CDot> one thing at a time (/me has been reading git horror stories recently) 07:49 < SvenDowideit_> well, svn.twiki.org is a git horror 07:49 < SvenDowideit_> it crashes git 07:49 < CDot> :-( 07:50 < CDot> so, do I have a login to nextwiki.org? 07:50 < SvenDowideit_> oh ssh? 07:50 < CDot> if so, what's my username? 07:50 < SvenDowideit_> do i have your key yet.. 07:50 < SvenDowideit_> no, gmc only set up one account 07:50 < CDot> I sent it *minutes* ago! 07:50 < SvenDowideit_> root :) 07:50 < SvenDowideit_> yeah, but i was rushing to meet MichaelDaum's 10 minutes to svn 07:51 < SvenDowideit_> which is done :) 07:51 < SvenDowideit_> ok, you should be able to ssh root@nextwiki.org 07:53 < SvenDowideit_> ooo, i have to go shopping for her dinner 07:54 < SvenDowideit_> wrt Bugs - do we want to import develop.t.o's bugs? 07:54 < SvenDowideit_> ok, bbiab 07:58 < CDot> SvenDowideit: yes, at least the open ones. 07:58 < CDot> we also want to move a selected subset of the Codev feature requests into it 08:08 -!- ColasHome [n=colas@mou06-1-82-246-4-64.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #twiki_fork 08:08 < CDot> ColasHome: heyho! 08:08 < ColasHome> wow! seems I missed all the action 08:14 < MichaelDaum> do you need log files 08:15 -!- Babar [i=babar@irssi/user/babar] has joined #twiki_fork 08:16 <@gmc> morning all 08:16 < Babar> morning Koen 08:17 < Babar> morning all 08:17 <@uebera||> Hi there, gmc. 08:17 * Babar gives a /op * to Koen :) 08:17 < Babar> morning Markus 08:17 <@uebera||> Hi, Babar. 08:18 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+oooo Babar ColasHome CDot GilmarSantosJr] by gmc 08:18 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+oooo SvenDowideit_ AndreU MichaelDaum Lavr] by gmc 08:18 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+oooo sayotte SvenDowideit krk Soronthar] by gmc 08:18 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+o WikiRingBot] by gmc 08:18 <@gmc> there we are.. 08:18 <@gmc> use it responsibly kids :) 08:19 -!- ktwilight_ [n=ktwiligh@113.115-66-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #twiki_fork 08:19 < ktwilight_> hahahaha 08:19 <@Babar> /invite peter_thoeny :) j/k 08:20 <@ColasHome> I can provide a [LOGGER] if you want 08:20 < ktwilight_> looks like the entire crew is here... 08:20 <@gmc> Babar: he was already kickbanned a couple of times 08:20 <@CDot> Babar: he was in here last night, but some people decided to kick him 08:20 <@gmc> ColasHome: plz! 08:20 <@CDot> ColasHome: yes, please! 08:20 <@ColasHome> ok 08:21 <@ColasHome> will do it this morning 08:21 < ktwilight_> surprise surprise... 08:21 < ktwilight_> i'd imagine things were going on well... 08:21 <@ColasHome> if you want me to put also in it (part of) logs of yesterday, just mail them to me 08:21 < ktwilight_> not till i saw a relaunch of t.o this mornin' in my mailbox 08:21 <@ColasHome> colas@nahaboo.net 08:22 <@ColasHome> me... I just discover the thing by an ... email from Pth :-) 08:22 <@gmc> i just decided to be at the release meeting for a change, to see if things were moving.. 08:22 <@CDot> ColasHome: if you have any ideas how we can advertise #twiki_fork more, please shout 08:22 <@gmc> when i saw TomBarton join i knew something was up, so happened i stumbled upon an historic meeting 08:23 <@ColasHome> just an idea: find a definitive name, with no "T" in it 08:23 <@gmc> are we still negative on a simple email on twiki-dev? 08:23 <@CDot> we are banned from contributing to TWiki.org unless we accept their gag terms. 08:23 <@CDot> ColasHome: yep, working on it 08:23 <@gmc> i think we should do that sooner rather than later to keep as many people with the project 08:23 <@ColasHome> communicate afterthe name is choosen 08:23 <@gmc> ColasHome: yes, we cant use twiki, peter made that clear already (he will sue) 08:23 <@uebera||> I have a live log starting 9min after creation of this channel; if it's okay to publish the entire content, I can make it available in the meantime... 08:24 <@CDot> sue? i doubt it; but he will certainly rattle his spears. 08:24 <@gmc> i have everything logged, right from the creation of the channel 08:25 <@Babar> CDot: hum, just do what we've requested to do for ages... get a better placement than any other twiki site on google? :) 08:25 <@uebera||> gmc: could you paste somewhere/mail me the first 15min? 08:26 <@CDot> Babar: it would help to have a "things to do" list longer than sven's title in this topic. I'll start one. 08:26 < ktwilight_> how 'bout name what sven was working on? fosiki? 08:26 <@ColasHome> (away, back in 30mn) 08:26 <@gmc> i'll attach the log so far on a topic on the new wiki.. 08:26 <@gmc> although, i wouldn't know where to start.. 08:26 <@gmc> any ideas? dont want to end up Codev again 08:27 <@gmc> do we need a Temporary web, that we know we are going to remove once we've got some proper structure? 08:28 <@gmc> do we just stick it all in the Sandbox or TWiki or whatever? 08:28 <@CDot> gmc: probably a good idea 08:28 <@gmc> Temporary then? 08:30 <@CDot> call it "Fork"? 08:30 -!- Wolf_Marbach [n=comconlt@125-238-209-207.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz] has joined #twiki_fork 08:30 <@CDot> gmc: OhFork? 08:31 <@gmc> ack 08:31 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+oo ktwilight_ Wolf_Marbach] by gmc 08:33 <@Wolf_Marbach> sorry guys but how can i read older comments? 08:33 <@gmc> Wolf_Marbach: you mean on the irc log? 08:34 <@Wolf_Marbach> right I would like to read the previous comments 08:34 * ktwilight_ would like to read the irc logs too 08:34 <@uebera||> --> http://wega.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/ueberall/misc/%23twiki_fork_log.txt 08:34 <@gmc> i'm posting them on the new wiki, just a moment 08:34 <@Wolf_Marbach> would be good I have to go to bed soon:-), but very interested what is going on 08:35 <@uebera||> If I get my hands on gmc's first 9min, I'll add them... Colas is going to provide a [LOGGER] instance here as well... 08:35 <@ktwilight_> cool 08:37 -!- overrider [n=ds@unaffiliated/overrider] has joined #twiki_fork 08:37 <@uebera||> NB this is the raw IRC bouncer log... I can setup a more polished variant (like http://wega.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/ueberall/misc/twiki-logs/) later on as well. 08:38 <@Wolf_Marbach> Good to see that the community is excited. Would like to add some comments about the new wiki site. Please be aware that some of the Peter guys will try to gaim info. Please find a space at the new site which is private to trusted people (I know its not wiki like but feel it necessary) 08:38 -!- ArthurClemens [n=arthur@195.50.132.26] has joined #twiki_fork 08:38 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+oo ArthurClemens overrider] by ktwilight_ 08:38 <@gmc> Wolf_Marbach: yes, you are right.. we want to avoid that probably but still 08:39 <@gmc> morning Arthur 08:39 -!- MartinSeibert [i=57ea2aca@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-ab99f01c04d89a81] has joined #twiki_fork 08:39 <@CDot> hey arthur, when you've read the logs, interested to hear your opinion. 08:40 <@CDot> welcome MartinSeibert. And many thanks for the offer of the servers! 08:40 < MartinSeibert> No problem. 08:40 <@ArthurClemens> where are the logs? 08:40 <@CDot> right now we are all pedalling as fast as we can :-) 08:40 <@CDot> ArthurClemens: logs of #twiki_release? 08:40 <@ktwilight_> http://wega.tm.informatik.uni-frankfurt.de/ueberall/misc/%23twiki_fork_log.txt <- most of it 08:40 <@Wolf_Marbach> gmc: I am from a very competitive background please keep them out!!! and prepare the new site to lokk professional before going too public as that would be bad marketing. 08:40 <@gmc> posting #twiki_release logs too 08:40 < MartinSeibert> CDot: I am very glad to see, that you have even pedalled further than I thought. :-) 08:41 <@gmc> hey martin! 08:41 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+o MartinSeibert] by gmc 08:41 <@CDot> MartinSeibert: it's amazing how far you can go when someone kicks you in the teeth. 08:41 <@MartinSeibert> :-) 08:43 * ArthurClemens has to get to work, will keep on reading 08:43 <@MartinSeibert> Folks: I have to prepare an important meeting tomorrow. So my time in the next days is scarce. Please note, that I am all in favor of doing whatever I can to support you guys. 08:43 <@MartinSeibert> I will also keep on reading, whenever I can. 08:43 <@MartinSeibert> Is there anything that I can offer, that would be of help? 08:44 -!- StephaneLenclud [i=d43f5eea@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-fdca49df3bcd372c] has joined #twiki_fork 08:44 <@MartinSeibert> Is a server something we need? 08:44 <@MartinSeibert> Or do we already have one? 08:44 <@Wolf_Marbach> Nextwiki need a professional layout and structure 08:44 <@uebera||> In the long run, mirror servers wouldn't be the worst idea, I guess... 08:45 <@MartinSeibert> Markus: So this would be something, I could offer. 08:45 <@gmc> MartinSeibert: well, we're good on the server for now 08:45 < StephaneLenclud> you need to get ride of TWiki branding on nextwiki.org 08:45 <@MichaelDaum> the current site is not a good idea I am afraid. 08:45 <@gmc> MartinSeibert: but in the near future we shuold pool all our servers in a distributed setup 08:45 <@MichaelDaum> gmc, this is really to early to get lost in geek stuff like that. 08:46 -!- kala [i=kala@uba.linux.ee] has joined #twiki_fork 08:46 <@SvenDowideit> tbh, i thik we need to work out what we're going to do much more than worry about servers 08:46 < StephaneLenclud> who owns nextwiki.org? 08:46 <@SvenDowideit> do, as in release what and when 08:46 <@SvenDowideit> me 08:46 <@SvenDowideit> i'll give it to any foundation if that goes 08:46 <@ktwilight_> +1 08:46 <@SvenDowideit> but i assume the name will be used for about 5 days 08:47 <@SvenDowideit> as a new non-crap name needs to be worked out very quickly 08:47 <@gmc> s/near future/long-term future/ 08:47 <@gmc> there's a pro working on that as we speak, no? 08:47 <@gmc> the name that is 08:47 <@SvenDowideit> i know nothing about what you speak 08:48 <@gmc> MichaelDaum's copywriter friend ? 08:48 -!- mode/#twiki_fork [+oo kala StephaneLenclud] by ktwilight_ 08:48 <@uebera||> gmc: Did you attach your log in the Sandbox? I don't see it in the "Sandbox Changes" list... 08:48 <@StephaneLenclud> Kool I got a star too ;) 08:48 <@gmc> http://twikifork.org/Fork/TWikiReleaseMeeting2008x10x27 08:48 <@uebera||> Ah. 08:48 <@ktwilight_> StephaneLenclud, :) 08:48 <@gmc> CDot: but hey.. didn't we think it'd be good not to mention the F word ? 08:49 <@StephaneLenclud> and I thought it was gonna be a boring day in the office 08:49 <@StephaneLenclud> forking sounds a lot of fun ;) 08:49 <@SvenDowideit> dunno 08:49 <@SvenDowideit> StephaneLenclud, like: what are we going to do with our debian pkgs 08:49 <@gmc> fun is not the right word.. 08:49 <@gmc> boring hard work is more like it 08:49 <@gmc> throw in an 'unpaid' and you've got about the scope of it 08:50 <@overrider> SvenDowideit, well now the utf support will have to wait a while it seems :-/ 08:50 <@CDot> StephaneLenclud: it will be fun if enough people pitch in to help 08:50 <@SvenDowideit> overrider, not necessarily 08:50 <@CDot> hell if it is left to the "usual suspects" 08:50 <@SvenDowideit> we could make it a massive priority..