[09:12AM] JulianLevens: RaulFR: There is a Quorom for board meetings, but this is not a board meeting [09:12AM] JulianLevens: Hi Lynwood [09:12AM] Lynnwood: good morning all. apologies for being late [09:12AM] JulianLevens: or eveb Lynnwood [09:13AM] Lynnwood: right [09:14AM] JulianLevens: Are you ready to Chair or do you need to catch your breath first? [09:14AM] Lynnwood: y, give me a sec to bring up AgendaSixthGeneralAssembly [09:15AM] Lynnwood: Do we have a quorum and have we noted any proxies? [09:15AM] Lynnwood: no proxies listed on the agenda... [09:15AM] CDot: • CDot sees from the agenda that he is an auditor..... ouch! [09:16AM] gac410: Hm. Sven sent an email saying he appointed CDot proxy [09:16AM] OliverKrueger: Oh, I just learned that I should present some numbers according to the agenda. [09:16AM] CDot: yes, I have Sven's proxy. [09:16AM] Lynnwood: ok [09:17AM] JulianLevens: Sorry, Oliver I really need to take over the Numbers stuff [09:17AM] Lynnwood: regarding the two vote counters, can we take volunteers or do we need more formal process? [09:17AM] OliverKrueger: np (for me). But I did not prepare anything for today. [09:18AM] JulianLevens: BTW: We also need a minute taker [09:18AM] Lynnwood: if i recall from last time, we simply had two folks volunteers and they gave their emails where we sent votes. [09:18AM] OliverKrueger: I can count votes. [09:18AM] Lynnwood: can we have a second counter? [09:18AM] gac410: I'll volunteer to take minutes. But not count votes. My server greylists, so 15 minute lag would not be good. [09:18AM] OliverKrueger: Lynnwood: true. [09:19AM] MartinRowe joined the chat room. (09:19AM) [09:19AM] MichaelDaum: I can count [09:19AM] Lynnwood: can i volunteer to count or is that conflict for chair? [09:19AM] Lynnwood: ok, thanks MichaelDaum [09:19AM] MartinRowe: Apologies for joining late [09:19AM] OliverKrueger: Are you up for re-election? [09:19AM] MichaelDaum: y [09:19AM] gac410: Just gettng started MartinRowe [09:19AM] MichaelDaum: well dunno [09:19AM] Lynnwood: If the counters would confirm their emails. [09:20AM] Lynnwood: i don’t see much in way of conflicts since we have two counters. [09:20AM] OliverKrueger: [post email] [09:21AM] MichaelDaum: [post email] [09:21AM] Lynnwood: Just to check, do I hear any objections to Oliver and Michael being vote counters. If i hear no objections, I’ll consider them approved by consent. [09:21AM] gac410: +1 [09:21AM] Lavr: +1 [09:21AM] FranzJosefGigler: +1 [09:21AM] MartinRowe: +1 [09:22AM] RaulFR: +1 [09:22AM] JulianLevens: +1 [09:22AM] OliverKrueger: +0 [09:22AM] OliverKrueger: [09:22AM] Lynnwood: is +0 and abstain? [09:22AM] Lynnwood: ok… moving on [09:23AM] FranzJosefGigler: please, having two little boys in my back [09:23AM] Lynnwood: Do we have any Induction of new members? I see none listed in the notes? [09:24AM] Lynnwood: Hearing noting on that item, i’ll move on… (feel free to bring it back up if you have additional information) [09:24AM] JulianLevens: GuilainC is observing and has not requested to become a member, yet [09:24AM] Lynnwood: ok [09:25AM] GuilainC: exact, let me see where you go, and if i follow you, the next time [09:25AM] Lynnwood: IV. Election of the of the Board of Directors and substitute members [09:25AM] Lynnwood: We elect 2 board members this time. Standing down are MichaelDaum, PaulHarvey. [09:25AM] gac410: MichaelDaum: are you willing to stand for re-election If so I propose you. [09:26AM] CDot: • CDot seconds MichaelDaum [09:26AM] MichaelDaum: thanks [09:26AM] Lynnwood: We have one nominee so far: CrawfordCurrie [09:26AM] Lynnwood: (nominated by MichaelDaum) [09:26AM] Lynnwood: do i see a pattern here? [09:27AM] CDot: Lynnwood: nepotism [09:27AM] Lynnwood: other nominee? [09:27AM] gac410: I just proposed MichaelDaum, so that makes 2 [09:27AM] Lynnwood: the best kind [09:27AM] gac410: (Didn't want to edit topic) [09:27AM] FranzJosefGigler: seconds Crawford and Micha [09:27AM] Lavr: Crawford and Micha - Yeah [09:27AM] Lynnwood: Do the nominee’s accept? [09:27AM] CDot: reluctantly [09:27AM] MichaelDaum: yes thanks [09:27AM] RaulFR: • RaulFR also seconds CDot and MichaelDaum [09:28AM] Lynnwood: allllright. Thank you gentlemen. [09:28AM] gac410: If there are no other nominations - and positioins are uncontested, do we need an email vote? [09:28AM] pharvey joined the chat room. (09:28AM) [09:28AM] Lynnwood: So at this point, please send your vote via email to addresses listed above. [09:28AM] Lavr: You do not need to vote in this case [09:28AM] pharvey: sorry I'm late [09:28AM] CDot: do we need a vote with only two nominations? [09:28AM] Lynnwood: please put “foswiki board vote” as subjct [09:29AM] Lynnwood: and list names you’re voting for. [09:29AM] gac410: Lynnwood: I think we can do this by acclamation and move on. Uncontested. [09:29AM] Lavr: If number of candidate = number of seats then no vote is needed [09:29AM] Lynnwood: CDot: good point [09:29AM] Lynnwood: thanks [09:29AM] Lavr: (clap clap) [09:29AM] CDot: Lavr: nice to see you! [09:29AM] Lynnwood: perhaps we should just check… any more nominee? [09:30AM] Lynnwood: going once… going twice… (last chance for grabbing ring of power) [09:30AM] OliverKrueger: Maybe pharvey wants to be re-elected. [09:30AM] pharvey: not this year [09:30AM] JulianLevens: gone [09:30AM] OliverKrueger: The votes are coming in... [09:31AM] Lynnwood: ok. hearing no further nominees and having only 2 for 2 openings, I declare them approved by acclamation. [09:31AM] OliverKrueger: So, by acclamation or shall I start counting? [09:31AM] Lavr: no counting needed [09:31AM] Lynnwood: no need to count. Thanks. [09:31AM] OliverKrueger: (clap) [09:31AM] Lynnwood: (clap, clap) [09:31AM] gac410: (clap) [09:31AM] FranzJosefGigler: (clap) [09:31AM] ueberall_m: (clap) [09:31AM] MartinRowe: (clap) [09:31AM] JulianLevens: (clap) [09:32AM] RaulFR: <-- (claps too) [09:32AM] OliverKrueger: • OliverKrueger sweeps the two votes under the mat. [09:32AM] Lynnwood: Financial Report: please refer to http://foswiki.org/Community/Finance/FinancialStatement2014 [09:32AM] pharvey: <-- (claps too late, asusual) [09:32AM] Lavr: You want to get at least one substitute elected [09:32AM] gac410: Congratulations MichaelDaum and CrawfordCurrie [09:32AM] FranzJosefGigler: any ideas why there are so few new membership queries? [09:33AM] Lynnwood: Lavr - thanks. [09:33AM] andreli joined the chat room. (09:33AM) [09:33AM] Lynnwood: sorry, i’m moving ahead to fast. [09:33AM] Lynnwood: I guess we need a nominee for substitute. [09:33AM] OliverKrueger: Gives me time to read the report. [09:33AM] gac410: hm. I don't recall needing a substitute. [09:33AM] Lavr: I can volunteer as a substitite [09:34AM] JulianLevens: No, I think low membership is something for us all to address [09:34AM] jast joined the chat room. (09:34AM) [09:34AM] CDot: From the accounts, low membership is *definitely* something to discuss [09:34AM] andreli: Sorry for arriving late. [09:34AM] Lynnwood: Noted that Lavr has volunteered to serve as substitute board member. [09:34AM] Lynnwood: any other nominees? [09:34AM] CDot: thanks Lavr [09:34AM] pharvey: • pharvey nominates jast [09:35AM] pharvey: as a potential member I should say [09:35AM] Lynnwood: sorry… was that nominee for substitute board member? [09:35AM] pharvey: please disregard [09:35AM] Lynnwood: ok. thanks [09:36AM] JulianLevens: Lavr thanks, only but the Articles do not mention a substitute board member - or do I miss that [09:36AM] Lynnwood: If i hear no further nominees, we’ll consider nomination closed and proceed to election of substitute. [09:36AM] Lavr: It was in the agenda and also normal to have if someone dies/gets sick/leaves [09:36AM] Lynnwood: makes sense. [09:37AM] OliverKrueger: Thats new to me, too. [09:37AM] gac410: Nothing in the Articles that I see suggests a substitute member. If this is the current articles. . http://foswiki.org/pub/Community/AssociationArticles/Foswiki_Association_Articles_2014-03-26.pdf [09:37AM] ueberall_m: question is: is it in line with the articles? [09:37AM] OliverKrueger: Thats why we have 5 board members. [09:37AM] MichaelDaum: we never had substitutes did we? [09:37AM] OliverKrueger: Not that I know of. [09:37AM] CDot: no [09:37AM] Lavr: If it is not in the articles when we can live without I guess [09:37AM] ueberall_m: If not, a new election is needed at that point in time. [09:38AM] CDot: Lavr: the offer is appreciated, and minuted [09:38AM] OliverKrueger: We can make every member a board member, of course. [09:38AM] Lynnwood: ok…. since it is not found in the articles, I believe we can dispense with it. [09:38AM] JulianLevens: As we are the members we could vote for Lavr as a substitute anyway and change the articles [09:38AM] Lynnwood: Thanks anyways to Lavr for being willing! [09:38AM] gac410: "Should a board member quite, the board appoints an alternate ... Section 11, paragraph 7 [09:39AM] gac410: er.. quit [09:39AM] ueberall_m: • ueberall_m also thanks Lavr for the wolligness, but has doubts as respect to the german association laws.... [09:39AM] FranzJosefGigler: five board members should be able to substitute themselves if necessary, I guess [09:39AM] OliverKrueger: Changing articles means: going through a notary cycle again and paying him/her. [09:39AM] Lynnwood: i would suggest not adding an extra board member at this time as it creates even number. [09:39AM] Lynnwood: and some confusion... [09:39AM] ueberall_m: S /wollingness/willingness [09:40AM] Lynnwood: Unless, I hear objections, I will proceed with agenda. [09:40AM] gac410: It's clearly addressed in the articles, so I think we are in good shape. [09:40AM] Lynnwood: waiting... [09:40AM] gac410: Should a Board member quit while in office, the Board appoints a provisional Board member. ... [09:40AM] Lynnwood: Ok, then next I am looking for motion to approve financial report and then we can discuss if needed. [09:41AM] FranzJosefGigler: thanks to peter pan I'm still here [09:41AM] RaulFR: Lynnwood, the URL you gave for the Financial Statement says that the "Audit results" are "to be done" [09:41AM] Lynnwood: right… [09:42AM] Lynnwood: can we get a motion…(by robert’s rules, we’re suppose to have motion before discussion) [09:42AM] gac410: Move to approve report [09:42AM] Lynnwood: thanks [09:42AM] CDot: RaulFR: the audit cannot proceed until the financial results are in [09:42AM] RaulFR: we have a problem according to Secyion 10 4) pf the bylaws [09:42AM] CDot: and I only realised I was an auditor about 20 minutes ago.... (my fault) [09:43AM] Lynnwood: (please someone second motion) [09:43AM] CDot: second the motion [09:43AM] Lynnwood: RaulFR: what’s the problem? [09:43AM] Lynnwood: thanks CDot [09:43AM] • Lynnwood goes to look at section 10 4 [09:44AM] RaulFR: "4) The General Assembly receives the Board’s annual report as well as the audit report of the auditor and discharges the Board’s responsibilities." incompatible encoding [09:44AM] OliverKrueger: RaulFR: the GA can exhonerate the board anyway, even if the auditor is absent. [09:45AM] RaulFR: presence of the audotor is not required, but it lokks like the audit report is [09:45AM] CDot: ok, due to my own negligence (and that of my fellow auditor, in absentia) I cannot put my name to an audit report. I have not seen the bank records. [09:45AM] RaulFR: but that's just my interpretation, and I am new to this [09:46AM] OliverKrueger: So we need another GA for the financial stuff? [09:46AM] CDot: I don't see why. We had this situation 2 GA's ago [09:46AM] JulianLevens: I would suggest that I (as Treasurer) and OliverKrueger (prior Treasurer) finish off the accounts and allow auditors to review [09:46AM] CDot: and the GA agreed to raise an alarm if the auditors found a problem [09:47AM] gac410: So moved... [09:47AM] CDot: so the GA approves the accounts subject to the auditor's report [09:47AM] JulianLevens: Seconded [09:47AM] Lynnwood: Seconded. [09:47AM] ueberall_m: +1 [09:47AM] OliverKrueger: Everything is fine as long noone objects. [09:47AM] MichaelDaum: +1 [09:47AM] CDot: the auditor's report to be reviewed by the board, yes? [09:47AM] FranzJosefGigler: +1 [09:47AM] JulianLevens: +1 [09:47AM] gac410: +1 [09:47AM] MartinRowe: +1 [09:47AM] OliverKrueger: +1 [09:47AM] Lynnwood: ok so the revised motion is to “approve the accounts subject to the auditor's report to be reviewed by board” [09:48AM] Lynnwood: and it’s passing in landslide. [09:48AM] Lynnwood: +1 [09:48AM] CDot: [09:48AM] Lavr: are all income and expense captured on http://foswiki.org/Community/Finance/FinancialStatement2014 so the only thing we lack is proof that the money is there? [09:48AM] CDot: yes [09:48AM] Lavr: +1 [09:48AM] OliverKrueger: The board cannot exhonerate itself. [09:48AM] FranzJosefGigler: payment for tax advisor and room rent, that's not much money movement [09:48AM] OliverKrueger: Lavr: true [09:49AM] OliverKrueger: FranzJosefGigler: that brings us to the next discussion. [09:49AM] RaulFR: the auditor's report has to be communicated to the general assembly, according to the bylaws, so I am unsure that legally this can be done. At least it should be made available publicly so that any members can have access to it at the time it is provided to the board [09:49AM] andreli: Couldn't we just move this to the next GA. Auditors have then to provide the reports für 2014 and 2015, no? [09:49AM] OliverKrueger: RaulFR: All numbers are already available. [09:50AM] OliverKrueger: RaulFR: the only thing that is not available are the papers which proof that the money is really there. [09:50AM] CDot: RaulFR: that's a fair point, and as the only auditor present, I undertake to make the report publicly available. [09:50AM] Lynnwood: Appreciate RaulFR’s point. We can post the audit report and invite comments prior to next board meeting. [09:50AM] OliverKrueger: We can postpone the exhoneration to the next GA. [09:50AM] Lavr: Well. If you can get the evidence to the auditors NOW that the money is there then we could close it within the realm of this GA which would be more correct [09:51AM] CDot: can I please have a second auditor to substitute of Padraig (on the assumption he isn't going to do it)? [09:51AM] FranzJosefGigler: wouldn't be a scanned "Kontoauszug" attached as PDF be proof enough? [09:51AM] Lavr: The expenses are two and incomes are clear. It is only a check that the cash is there the auditor needs to perform [09:51AM] Lynnwood: right. [09:51AM] CDot: I can accept Lavr's proposal [09:51AM] Lynnwood: Could someone email CDot scan of bank statement. [09:52AM] Lynnwood: ? [09:52AM] RaulFR: Lavr, that sounds reasonable to me too [09:52AM] Lynnwood: We could table this item and return to it shortly. [09:52AM] OliverKrueger: I have to scan them first. [09:52AM] OliverKrueger: Do we have 5mins? [09:52AM] RaulFR: Lynnwood, yes [09:52AM] CDot: if the Kontoauszug is shared with the whole GA, we don't need a second auditor [09:52AM] Lynnwood: but proceed with agenda in mean time. [09:52AM] FranzJosefGigler: +1 to proceeding [09:53AM] gac410: Yes please proceed. [09:53AM] RaulFR: +1 [09:53AM] OliverKrueger: The Kontoauszug is not from today. I get them quarterly. [09:53AM] Lynnwood: Unless i hear otherwise, i’ll assume that’s the course we’ll follow. [09:53AM] MichaelDaum: OliverKrueger, no online banking? [09:53AM] Lynnwood: (just needs to cover through 2014) [09:53AM] OliverKrueger: MichaelDaum: sure, but that doesn't look official. [09:53AM] Lynnwood: Next item is to take nominations for next year’s auditors. [09:54AM] Lynnwood: 2 Auditors. [09:54AM] MichaelDaum: OliverKrueger, there might be a pdf export of the current ballance [09:54AM] OliverKrueger: MichaelDaum: only for the paypal part. [09:54AM] MichaelDaum: official enuf for the ga [09:55AM] Lynnwood: See what you can get us there OliverKrueger... [09:55AM] OliverKrueger: working on it... [09:55AM] gac410: I nominate CDot for 2015 Auditor [09:55AM] Lynnwood: thanks [09:55AM] Lynnwood: thanks gac410 [09:55AM] Lavr: Auditor has to be none board member - right? [09:55AM] CDot: right [09:55AM] gac410: Oh... never mind [09:56AM] gac410: I nominate Lavr as auditor for 2015 [09:56AM] Lavr: OK [09:56AM] andreli: I would be able to do an audit. [09:56AM] Lynnwood: awesome. [09:56AM] Lynnwood: we have two nominees. any others? [09:56AM] gac410: Do we have someone to nominate andreli? [09:56AM] pharvey: I nominate andreli [09:56AM] Lynnwood: great. [09:56AM] CDot: seconded [09:56AM] MichaelDaum: +1 [09:57AM] Lynnwood: Can we get confirmation that nominee’s accept? [09:57AM] Lavr: I accept [09:57AM] FranzJosefGigler: i nominate Sven as auditor, cause he's not here today - okay, never mind [09:57AM] andreli: Yes do too. [09:57AM] RaulFR: +1 too [09:57AM] FranzJosefGigler: (clap for Lavr and andreli) [09:57AM] gac410: This just needs an open vote. [09:57AM] MichaelDaum: clap [09:57AM] MartinRowe: (clap) [09:58AM] gac410: clap for Lavr & andreli [09:58AM] JulianLevens: clap [09:58AM] ueberall_m: (clap) [09:58AM] pharvey: clapz [09:58AM] RaulFR: (clap) [09:58AM] Lynnwood: (clap) [09:58AM] Lynnwood: If i hear no objections, the claps have it. [09:59AM] Lynnwood: cheers for auditors Lavr & andreli! [10:00AM] OliverKrueger: • OliverKrueger uploads a screenshot to the Finance web. [10:00AM] jast left the chat room. (10:00AM) Reason: "gotta go, sorry" [10:00AM] Lynnwood: url? [10:00AM] OliverKrueger: omp [10:02AM] Lynnwood: ? [10:02AM] gac410: While that's uploading, can we move on? Were there any bylaws changes submitted? [10:02AM] Lynnwood: ok. thanks [10:02AM] Lynnwood: VI. Proposals received from the members for Bylaws [10:02AM] Lynnwood: any new bylaws proposed? [10:02AM] Lynnwood: last chance... [10:03AM] CDot: wait! ...... no. [10:03AM] FranzJosefGigler: regarding bylaws: do we have an official project sponsor in the queue? [10:03AM] CDot: erm, that's an excellent question, that relates to the other AOB I wanted to raise [10:03AM] gac410: Project sponsor? You mean a commercial sponsor? [10:04AM] RaulFR: • RaulFR is running out of time, I am stayin in the channel and will be on and off from now on, sorry for that, I didn't schedule enough time [10:04AM] FranzJosefGigler: it's on that bylaws page [10:04AM] Lynnwood: CDot: Do you have a proposal? [10:04AM] pharvey: I may have to sleep soon [10:04AM] pharvey: I assume Sven decided to sleep instead of GA [10:04AM] OliverKrueger: http://foswiki.org/bin/attach/Community/Finance/FinancialStatement2015 [10:04AM] CDot: Lynnwood: not for a byelaw, just an AOB. [10:04AM] Lynnwood: ok [10:05AM] Lynnwood: hearing no new bylaws. [10:05AM] Lynnwood: moving on... [10:05AM] OliverKrueger: We have to talk about the money. [10:05AM] Lynnwood: VII. Misc [10:06AM] OliverKrueger: Looking at the upcoming FoswikiCamp and the Accountants Fee, we might be broke soon. [10:06AM] Lynnwood: We can discuss the item listed and then open floor for additional items for discussion. [10:06AM] RaulFR: yay, I am in the screen capture [10:07AM] OliverKrueger: I hopefully blanked out all account numbers. [10:07AM] JulianLevens: No FoswikiCamp costs expected, this year we do not meet on Saturday hence no costs [10:07AM] Lynnwood: Some just let me know when the screen captures are all available. [10:07AM] Lynnwood: Shall we proceed with discussion of “a) Regular Schedule for Assembly”? [10:07AM] gac410: http://foswiki.org/Community/Finance/FinancialStatement2015#!jqTab2819 [10:07AM] Lynnwood: ah… ready? [10:07AM] OliverKrueger: yes [10:07AM] Lynnwood: thanks. [10:08AM] Lynnwood: Then let’s return to review of audit. [10:08AM] OliverKrueger: I will delete them after this show. [10:08AM] Lavr: I am happy to have seen that the money is there and not spent on expensive redwine [10:08AM] OliverKrueger: Thats just because I don't like wine. [10:08AM] CDot: I want to know that the current a/c balance is the same as at 29/1/15, and if not, what happened since [10:08AM] OliverKrueger: The screenshots are from today. [10:09AM] OliverKrueger: So, 1202,11€ is $NOW. [10:09AM] CDot: sorry, ignore that. OK, I am ready to sign off on the audit. [10:09AM] FranzJosefGigler: what does AOB stand for? [10:09AM] JulianLevens: Any Other Business [10:09AM] ueberall_m: any other business [10:09AM] FranzJosefGigler: ah, thanks [10:09AM] Lynnwood: confirming that the reported balances in spreadsheets match the account balances shown in Balance Sheet. [10:10AM] CDot: Auditors report: "I have reviewed activity on the GA account and am satisfied that (the relevant topics) represent a true and accurate statement of the financial position" [10:10AM] gac410: I Move to accept auditors report. [10:10AM] Lynnwood: great. [10:10AM] Lavr: +1 [10:10AM] pharvey: +1 [10:10AM] OliverKrueger: +1 [10:10AM] RaulFR: +1 [10:10AM] JulianLevens: +1 [10:10AM] MartinRowe: +1 [10:10AM] Lynnwood: +1 [10:10AM] ueberall_m: +1 [10:10AM] Lynnwood: alright. [10:10AM] andreli: +1 [10:10AM] FranzJosefGigler: +1 [10:11AM] MichaelDaum: +1 [10:11AM] Lynnwood: Then passing that, i’d like a motion to approve the financial report and “discharge the Board’s responsibilities” . [10:11AM] Lynnwood: actually, we had the monbtion to approve report. [10:12AM] Lynnwood: so just confirm that and discharge board. [10:12AM] gac410: Okay need a motion to discharge the board? Does it have to come from a non-board member? [10:12AM] OliverKrueger: I propose to discharge the board. [10:12AM] FranzJosefGigler: +1 [10:12AM] FranzJosefGigler: must go now, do not want to miss Peter Pan's final. [10:13AM] JulianLevens: +1 [10:13AM] RaulFR: +1 [10:13AM] Lavr: +1 [10:13AM] MartinRowe: +1 [10:13AM] Lynnwood: I will consider this as amendment to approval of financial statement since we haven’t actually voted on that yet... [10:13AM] Lynnwood: +1 [10:13AM] OliverKrueger: +1 [10:14AM] andreli: +1 [10:14AM] Lynnwood: ok. i think we have majority in any case… but feel free to add vote if you haven’t. moving on... [10:14AM] CDot: +1 [10:14AM] FranzJosefGigler: +1 [10:14AM] Lynnwood: Any proposals regarding Regular Schedule for Assembly? [10:14AM] pharvey: +1 [10:14AM] ueberall_m: +1 [10:15AM] OliverKrueger: today() + 365d ? [10:15AM] OliverKrueger: earlier? [10:15AM] Lynnwood: I see idea floated there for moving it to non-Daylight Savings time to provide slightly better time. [10:15AM] pharvey: or is it 366? Leap year [10:15AM] Lynnwood: We were a bit late this year, so we could move it back to pre-daylight savings. [10:15AM] gac410: There was a very strong objection from one timezone regarding the time of day. They wanted the meeting to be scheduled by a polled time I think. [10:15AM] MichaelDaum: what date will it be in 2016? [10:16AM] JulianLevens: Actually it would be Daylight Savings Time so more like April [10:16AM] FranzJosefGigler: bye and everybody having nice weekends, and a great wiki camp to all who can manage to be there [10:16AM] FranzJosefGigler left the chat room. (10:16AM) Reason: Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805] [10:16AM] Lynnwood: oh… sorry if i misread. Daylight savings is a plus? [10:16AM] MichaelDaum: any time is fine with me as long as it is during weekdays working hours [10:17AM] gac410: Everybody wants that [10:17AM] JulianLevens: I am also concious that Lynnwood is actually the most Western member attending, is that right [10:17AM] gac410: Me too. same tz. [10:17AM] MichaelDaum: and pharvey is staying up all nite [10:17AM] Lynnwood: i believe Sven had the strongest objection. [10:17AM] gac410: Yes [10:17AM] Lynnwood: i’m ok as long as it’s not TOO much earlier. [10:18AM] RaulFR: week days working hours si actually a problem for me [10:18AM] Lynnwood: it’s a very reasonable 9am start. [10:18AM] Lynnwood: an hour or two earlier would be manageable. [10:18AM] Lynnwood: 3 pushing it.. but i could cope. [10:18AM] pharvey: my 4 month old son has taught me that any time of day is a good time of day [10:18AM] gac410: yeah. I'd be very willing to join a few hours earlier to help accommodate the NZ an AU timezones [10:19AM] JulianLevens: I would propose 1st Friday in April and bring the time 2 hours earlier [10:19AM] Lynnwood: gac410: define “few”? [10:19AM] Lynnwood: ok [10:19AM] Lynnwood: proposal on floor. [10:19AM] gac410: I *think* Sven's objection was more that he wasn't asked what time worked for him. [10:19AM] Lynnwood: gac410: that sounds right from my memory of his email. [10:20AM] MichaelDaum: Sven and pharvey are in the same tz, right? [10:20AM] Lynnwood: but he’s not here for discussion... [10:20AM] Lavr: I have problems in general with "working time" but if it has to be - Friday is best for me. So a Friday is good for me [10:20AM] gac410: CDot has his proxy [10:20AM] JulianLevens: The Friday would still be moveable to 2nd, 3rd Friday or whatever if it clashes with Easter or whatever [10:20AM] Lynnwood: Could we get second to JulianLevens proposal for futher discussion yay or nay? [10:21AM] CDot: when it comes to voting for times, I pass Sven's proxy ro pharvey [10:21AM] gac410: I'm happy with date in april. Friday is fine. Avoiding easter is good. And if on DST, 1200 or even 1100 z would be fine. [10:21AM] CDot: though I suspect he spends almost as much time in SF these days [10:21AM] Lynnwood: SF? [10:21AM] CDot: Hippytown, CA [10:21AM] gac410: Babar woud be the furtherst West, as he now is in California. (SanFrancisco) [10:22AM] Lynnwood: really? almost in my neighborhood. [10:22AM] MichaelDaum: sanfrantic [10:22AM] JulianLevens: Members need to let us know if they will attend a GA at the timing is an issue [10:22AM] Lynnwood: 1100z would be… 5am in CA [10:22AM] JulianLevens: and the time=ing ... [10:23AM] Lynnwood: or 4am… [10:23AM] Lynnwood: rough... [10:23AM] OliverKrueger: Is there AOB? [10:24AM] CDot: • CDot would like to discuss membership, but isn't sure the GA is the right place [10:24AM] ueberall_m: you want to raise the fee? [10:24AM] CDot: ueberall_m: are you proposing that? [10:25AM] • CDot didn't [10:25AM] MichaelDaum: CDot, well. we might have to discuss and check current members and probably change their status. [10:25AM] Lynnwood: Question: can we approve a date for next GA and leave time to board so that we could poll closer to date? [10:25AM] OliverKrueger: +1 [10:25AM] CDot: Lynnwood: I'd be happy with that. [10:25AM] ueberall_m: I have not peeked at the balance, but if we don't get much money from that with the given expenses, we might be forced to do so, no? [10:26AM] OliverKrueger: Currently there are approx 1300€. We need 240€/year for the accountant. [10:26AM] JulianLevens: Next GA 1st April 2016, provisionally at 1200Z [10:26AM] Lavr: Why do we need an accountant? [10:26AM] ueberall_m: OH right, then keep the current fee, of course. [10:26AM] Lynnwood: ok. [10:26AM] CDot: since we don't have the camp expense this year, we have a little bit more headroom; but the board has nothing much to work with [10:27AM] CDot: for example, sponsoring work, students etc [10:27AM] gac410: Easter sunday is March 27. [10:27AM] gac410: 2016 [10:27AM] CDot: I was thinking, perhaps we might consider corporate memberships? [10:27AM] Lynnwood: 1st April 2016 would be close to Easter then. Too close? [10:28AM] CDot: too close [10:28AM] gac410: DST starts March 13 . [10:28AM] CDot: the equinox is a good date to target [10:28AM] gac410: April 8 then is 2nd friday? [10:28AM] OliverKrueger: CDot: corps can be supporting members. [10:28AM] Lynnwood: actually… a week later. [10:28AM] CDot: vernal equinox [10:28AM] Lynnwood: March 27 is sunday. [10:28AM] Lynnwood: April 1 is friday [10:28AM] JulianLevens: April 8th, we cannot go earlier as DST not started in Europe [10:28AM] CDot: OliverKrueger: y, but they have no voting rights IIRC [10:28AM] OliverKrueger: true [10:28AM] Lynnwood: easter would be pretty much past. [10:29AM] Lynnwood: So April 8ths proposed? [10:29AM] JulianLevens: y, proposed [10:29AM] OliverKrueger: Lavr: I was told that we need one. [10:29AM] Lynnwood: A scond for JulianLevens proposal? [10:30AM] Lynnwood: and please vote [10:30AM] gac410: Europe DST starts 27-Mar, 01:00h [10:30AM] MichaelDaum: +1 [10:30AM] MartinRowe: +1 [10:30AM] Lynnwood: +1 [10:30AM] OliverKrueger: +1 [10:30AM] gac410: +1 [10:30AM] Lavr: +1 [10:30AM] andreli: +1 [10:30AM] Lynnwood: ok. that’s approved. [10:31AM] JulianLevens: pharvey based on proposal you'll be able to attend two whole hours earlier! [10:31AM] pharvey: awesome stuff [10:31AM] Lynnwood: Is there motion to discuss corporate memberships? [10:31AM] Lynnwood: or desire? [10:31AM] Lynnwood: at this time? [10:31AM] pharvey: I'll have to sleep I'm afraid [10:31AM] gac410: g'night pharvey [10:31AM] JulianLevens: g'night [10:31AM] MichaelDaum: nite [10:31AM] Lynnwood: understood. thanks pharvey [10:32AM] CDot: • CDot would be quite happy to leave it to a board discussion, but I think we need to discuss it. [10:32AM] Lynnwood: ok [10:32AM] MichaelDaum: what time did we settle on April 8 2016? [10:32AM] JulianLevens: 1200Z I think [10:32AM] Lynnwood: we could take few more minutes to brainstorm this if you’d like. [10:32AM] CDot: MichaelDaum: 04:00 Hamburg time 3:-) [10:32AM] MichaelDaum: • MichaelDaum adds that to the Foswiki Calendar [10:32AM] Lynnwood: I believe we have no further items for agenda. [10:32AM] CDot: ok [10:33AM] OliverKrueger: We have to change the articles for corp. memberships. So we need another GA anyway. [10:33AM] CDot: well, on memberships. Having audited just now, I have 2 concerns [10:33AM] CDot: first, that the turnover is not high enough for the board to do any more than exist [10:33AM] CDot: second, that corporates do not perceive value from the GA [10:34AM] • CDot would like to see the GA offering a value proposition [10:34AM] OliverKrueger: What might that be? [10:34AM] CDot: for example, sponsoring student work, Foswiki summer of code [10:34AM] gac410: GA (General Assembly) or do you mean the Foswiki Association. [10:35AM] CDot: sorry, the association, but I refuse to call it the FA [10:35AM] JulianLevens: you just did [10:35AM] CDot: [10:36AM] ueberall_m: shouldn't sponsoring be open for everyone? [10:36AM] OliverKrueger: Sure, everybody can make donations. [10:36AM] CDot: ueberall_m: absolutely, I'm not closing that door [10:36AM] andreli: CDot, FYI: We will have a student this summer focussing an Solr and Foswiki. I m looking forward to discuss some ideas with MichaelDaum in Amsterdam. [10:37AM] gac410: So need a new category "Sponsoring membership?" Maybe with some recognition on the website, One membership vote? [10:37AM] CDot: cost? [10:37AM] Lynnwood: would a vote add to the “value proposition” (say more than just public recognition on site)? [10:37AM] CDot: andreli: as a represntative of a corporate, do you think you would have any interest? [10:38AM] CDot: Lynnwood: probably not. The value comes from the continued development of FW [10:38AM] CDot: right now, a few of us are hero-programming to get improvements done [10:39AM] CDot: there is defintiely scope for improving on that [10:39AM] CDot: of course, if no-one *wants* improvements, the question is moot [10:39AM] Lynnwood: indeed. [10:40AM] andreli: CDot: No, not really. Just to mention, I am attending here as a private person, no official representation of the institute I am working for. [10:40AM] Lynnwood: we need improvements or we are going down. [10:40AM] JulianLevens: Don't we need to think big if we are looking for corporate sponsors [10:40AM] CDot: andreli: yes, I know that. But would you be interested in your institution having a formal representation? [10:40AM] gac410: People certainly have been *asking* for improvements, but not a lot of new interest putting in effort into the project [10:41AM] JulianLevens: I mean minimum 1000 euro [10:41AM] JulianLevens: (ok not that big but) [10:41AM] MichaelDaum: improvements on the project commitment are more in actually providing patches n stuff [10:41AM] MichaelDaum: money is nice. but code is better. [10:42AM] JulianLevens: I'm thinking that even with 10 sponsors you end of with 10k euros to finance a summer of code and publicity [10:42AM] CDot: well, code is noce - but only if there's someone coordinating all those imputs [10:42AM] gac410: At least with the move to github we seem to have gotten a few small patch contributions. No where enough though. I'm very concerned that the committed developers seems to be dwindling. [10:42AM] MichaelDaum: what inputs [10:42AM] CDot: otherwise the project starts to look like a Christmas tree in a blind school [10:43AM] CDot: bits of code hanging off in all directions [10:43AM] CDot: no coordinated plan [10:43AM] andreli: CDot: No, as we are an end user of Foswiki, what could we gain from a representation? [10:43AM] MichaelDaum: this is more of a management problem rather than a question how to improve on a sponsorship program [10:43AM] CDot: andreli: managed improvements [10:43AM] andreli: This might be of interrest to a agency or so. [10:44AM] CDot: a stream of coordinated, managed improvements [10:44AM] gac410: The whole dev. process has rather atrophied ... Lots of proposals, few if any "concerns", stuff just happens. [10:44AM] JulianLevens: What are the barriers to people becoming developers? [10:44AM] CDot: gac410: right [10:44AM] andreli: CDot: We have paid staff to manage our Foswiki. [10:44AM] JulianLevens: What can we do to lower those barriers? [10:45AM] andreli: JulianLevens: Perl [10:45AM] JulianLevens: There has been some patches offered because but it's hardly an avalanche [10:45AM] JulianLevens: because of git [10:46AM] gac410: I've found the project very open and willing to accept developers. Generally irc is pretty welcominig too. Very few toxic participant events. [10:46AM] CDot: ok, well, we're not going to solve this today. I wanted to raise the financial issue, and get people thinking. [10:46AM] GuilainC: • GuilainC ask if he can tell something [10:46AM] JulianLevens: Yes but the process of setting up a development environment can be daunting [10:47AM] Lynnwood: go ahead GuilainC [10:47AM] CDot: GuilainC: so long as it's on topic, sure [10:47AM] Lynnwood: sounds like we’re winding down prior discussion... [10:47AM] Lynnwood: for now. [10:47AM] GuilainC: I'm following cdot proposition [10:47AM] Lynnwood: ok [10:47AM] GuilainC: in my previous experience, [10:47AM] GuilainC: i can't buy some consultancy on foswiki [10:48AM] GuilainC: but I should be able to make some donation [10:48AM] GuilainC: or sponsoring [10:48AM] CDot: ok, interesting [10:48AM] GuilainC: du to the organisation of the SME [10:48AM] gac410: CDot. Why don't you propose an amendment to the articles to add a "sponsorship" category of membership. for discussion at a later meeting. [10:48AM] GuilainC: in this case, having a possibilities to deposit a amount of money somewhere helping foswiki [10:48AM] CDot: gac410: not sure we need to, yet. [10:48AM] GuilainC: project could be a good things, IMHO [10:49AM] CDot: It *could* be as simple as a "sponsorship invitation" [10:49AM] GuilainC: hoping to have been clear and concise, more details, please just asking [10:49AM] MichaelDaum: CDot, there are other open source projects that have sponsorship or organizational memembership programs [10:49AM] CDot: MichaelDaum: is there a model you like? [10:49AM] gac410: GuilainC: What do you mean by "i can't buy some consultancy on foswiki" [10:50AM] Lynnwood: i was curious on meaning of that also [10:50AM] CDot: gac410: he means corporate constraints prevent him from doing that (I think) [10:50AM] JulianLevens: I think my employer would make a donation, but alas not yet [10:50AM] GuilainC: when you're in a SME, you have 2 or 3 signature depending of the amount [10:50AM] MichaelDaum: CDot, I recall KDE e.V. has got three levels of sponsorship based on the amount of annual fee [10:50AM] CDot: I have seen that as well; companies can only but from "approved suppliers" [10:50AM] CDot: buy [10:50AM] gac410: SME "Subject Matter Expert?" [10:50AM] pharvey: good night everyone, hopefully I'll find a way to IRC lurk again soon [10:50AM] CDot: pharvey: viao [10:50AM] CDot: ciao [10:50AM] Lynnwood: ah. SME = small and medium organizations [10:50AM] MichaelDaum: pharvey, hope to see you more often on #foswiki [10:51AM] gac410: Thanks for joining [10:51AM] JulianLevens: night pharvey [10:51AM] Lynnwood: thanks pharvey [10:51AM] pharvey: will do, we had a "no social media at work" policy and like a chump I followed it even though nobody would ever know [10:51AM] MichaelDaum: may the pampers be with you [10:51AM] GuilainC: if they see "consultency", or consultant, if they see an person, is more, in particular independant, it's difficult to have the go for buying the consultancy. In opposite, tell I need this money for having this software si easy for them [10:51AM] GuilainC: SME = Small and midsized Entreprise [10:51AM] pharvey left the chat room. (10:51AM) Reason: Quit: Page closed [10:52AM] CDot: MichaelDaum: I like the sound of that [10:52AM] gac410: There is also "sponsored development" where the company commits a person to spend time working on a project. It doesn't have to be just a finanical payment. [10:52AM] Lynnwood: that would be very good also. [10:52AM] CDot: gac410: good one [10:52AM] CDot: I like that [10:52AM] Lynnwood: give them credit at no additional cost. [10:52AM] MichaelDaum: yes getting a foot into SMEs is difficult as they already pay trained IT [10:52AM] gac410: It would be nice if companies using some of the languishing extensions would be willing to polish them up. [10:52AM] GuilainC: like too [10:52AM] Lynnwood: e.g. commit some of existing employee time [10:53AM] gac410: Doesn't need to be core development or new features. Any development activity would be appreciated, and acknowledged. [10:53AM] OliverKrueger: • OliverKrueger has to leave, too. [10:53AM] Lynnwood: ok... [10:53AM] Lynnwood: thanks OliverKrueger [10:53AM] gac410: Should we formally adjourn, and then continue the discussion? [10:53AM] MichaelDaum: Oliver, good to hear from you. see you. [10:53AM] CDot: ok, there are some good ideas here. Can I propose we have an open meeting to discuss this further? [10:53AM] OliverKrueger: bye everyone. [10:53AM] Lynnwood: gac410: yes i thank so [10:53AM] JulianLevens: bye [10:53AM] gac410: bye [10:53AM] OliverKrueger left the chat room. (10:53AM) Reason: Quit: OliverKrueger [10:54AM] Lynnwood: Regarding this discussion, i think board has enough ideas for follow up idscussion [10:54AM] CDot: ok [10:54AM] JulianLevens: Agreed [10:54AM] Lynnwood: looking for motion to adjourn [10:54AM] gac410: So moved [10:54AM] MichaelDaum: +1 [10:54AM] Lynnwood: +1 [10:54AM] MartinRowe: +1 [10:54AM] gac410: Er.. .Move to adjourn [10:54AM] Lynnwood: Thanks to everyone for time, attention, patience and support of foswiki!! [10:54AM] CDot: seconded [10:55AM] andreli: +1 [10:55AM] JulianLevens: Thanks everyone, looking forward to next week's Camp now [10:55AM] andreli: Thanks Lynnwood [10:55AM] meeting adjourned.