Release Meeting: 05 Oct 2015


1. Blocker review

Patch blockers were all resolved, and Foswiki 2.0.2 is released. One new urgent task opened:

And one old task still opened against the next Minor release
  • 12822 (No Action Required): edit changes lost sometimes

Release plan

Planning for 2.1: Feature proposal review

  • Feature Freeze: 1 Dec 2015 - All proposed features tested and merged from Item* branches.
  • Release from: master
  • Branch date: TBD
  • Beta start: TBD
  • Release target: 4 Jan 2015

AddConcatOptionToAttrs Add +"more" and key+"more" options to Foswiki::Attrs JulianLevens AcceptedProposal
ConfigurableURLIncludes It would be really helpful if URL includes could be enabled for only certain domains. MichaelDaum AcceptedProposal
DeprecateHTTPandHTTPS Deprecate and restrict VarHTTP and VarHTTPS macros due to security concerns GeorgeClark AcceptedProposal Reopen for discussion
MakeZonesLessIntrusive Make zones less intrusive, especially for non-HTML output PaulHarvey. GeorgeClark AcceptedProposal
ReduceImpactOfCGIDotPMinFoswiki Reduce impact of in Foswiki MichaelDaum GeorgeClark UnderConstruction Reopen for discussion
SplitTopicAttachmentNameFilters Split the topic and attachment name filters, and block colon from topic names GeorgeClark AcceptedProposal
TopicDisplayName Let topics have a display title MichaelDaum AcceptedProposal
AddBacklinksToQuery Make faster Backlinks possible JulianLevens UnderInvestigation  
AddRegistrationTokenToUserinfo Add $registration token to USERINFO MichaelDaum UnderInvestigation  
PreventRedundantFileReadsInStore Prevent redundant file reads in store MichaelDaum UnderInvestigation  

Next meeting - - Monday Oct 19, 2015 1300Z — ReleaseMeeting02x01_20151019


(08:17:55 AM) JulianLevens entered the room.
(08:59:35 AM) JozefMojzis  entered the room.
(08:59:41 AM) JozefMojzis left the room.
(09:00:06 AM) JozefMojzis  entered the room.
(09:01:41 AM) gac410: Hi everyone.  1301z   lets get started...
(09:01:55 AM) gac410:
(09:04:02 AM) CDot  entered the room.
(09:04:28 AM) gac410: Not much in the way of urgent tasks.   One new one I opened  regarding extension installer.
(09:05:00 AM) gac410: Extension installer seems to be reluctant to replace files ... currently no idea why.   CDot, you were looking too.  Did you come up with anything?
(09:05:47 AM) gac410: I'd suspect fcgi,  but the CLI seems to fail too,  so I'm rather stumped.  2 different code paths,  same issue.
(09:06:46 AM) gac410: Only other urgent task is a very old one from MichaelDaum ... we had deferred it to 2.1.     Edit fails to save changes. 
(09:07:08 AM) CDot: gac410: no, sorry, diverted onto other things
(09:08:00 AM) jomo entered the room.
(09:08:05 AM) JozefMojzis left the room.
(09:08:56 AM) gac410: that's fine.  I hope it will be a while before we start building a new release. :)
(09:11:25 AM) MichaelDaum: hi all
(09:11:32 AM) gac410: hi MichaelDaum
(09:12:21 AM) MichaelDaum: I seriously havent been able to reproduce 12822 ... nor have we seen other users reporting a similar issue
(09:12:42 AM) MichaelDaum: though
(09:12:45 AM) gac410: Okay.  Let's close it then no -action    and re-open if someone encounters it?
(09:12:51 AM) MichaelDaum: ya
(09:13:24 AM) MichaelDaum: there might still be a red herring in there as the way we currently integrate tinymce on javascript level is ... awful
(09:13:33 AM) gac410: iirc that happened around the time I was trying to make TinyMCE "switchable" ...  which I reverted 
(09:13:41 AM) MichaelDaum: this all needs rethinking when upgrading tinymce
(09:14:02 AM) ***gac410 stays far far away from tmce whenever practical
(09:14:30 AM) MichaelDaum: the editor ... Achilles's heel of a wiki. 
(09:14:56 AM) gac410: I apologize,  I neglected to update the meeting minutes with a summary of our features discussion from 9/21.   
(09:16:09 AM) gac410: We decided to reopen a couple of the proposals for more discussion.   I didn't change the proposal states, but no other updates happened.  I assume either nobody got to it?
(09:16:50 AM) CDot: MichaelDaum: I did an offline upgrade of TMCE with minimal intervention. But you are right, it could be improved a lot.
(09:16:51 AM) MichaelDaum: shall we discuss those here or on #foswiki or offline-ish
(09:17:16 AM) CDot: TMCE doesn't make it easy, sadly.
(09:17:30 AM) MichaelDaum: the new tinymce api seems to have improved
(09:17:52 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum:   For feature proposals,  probably better to discuss "in the proposal"  so it's documented and we don't have to go back through irc logs.
(09:18:07 AM) MichaelDaum: xactly, gac410
(09:18:19 AM) MichaelDaum: however I enjoy brainstorms on irc from time to time
(09:19:01 AM) MichaelDaum: irc-scrum
(09:19:14 AM) gac410: yes.   +1     That can be very helpful,  and much faster (and less editing collisions) 
(09:20:03 AM) MichaelDaum: what we should discuss in the scope of our current meeting is probably branches
(09:20:14 AM) CDot: y, TMCE api has improved a lot
(09:20:15 AM) gac410: Lets diverge a bit,   discuss Foswiki 1.1.x backwards compat.      ya,  branches too.
(09:21:15 AM) gac410: For backwards compat.  I've been working on two paths.  1)  Update Release01x01 branch with backfited fixes and perl compat fixes.     Testing on perl 5.23.3 with latest cpan.
(09:21:34 AM) gac410: 2)  Rolling only selected fixes into a  PatchRelease01x01Contrib   
(09:21:45 AM) MichaelDaum: there are some fixes missing for 1.1.x imporant for rest from cli
(09:22:04 AM) MichaelDaum: AllowLoginName enabled -> not an admin from cli
(09:22:15 AM) gac410: hm  okay I don't have any of those fixes.
(09:22:34 AM) MichaelDaum: wheres the task?
(09:22:43 AM) Lynnwood entered the room.
(09:22:57 AM) gac410: I've been opening tasks for each backport,  plus tasks for the Patch contribs.
(09:23:04 AM) gac410: So a bunch of tasks.
(09:23:21 AM) MichaelDaum: okay gonna add an item for it
(09:24:14 AM) gac410: I decided NOT to create a repo for the Patch contrib.    Since it's a patch into the Release branch,  I think it makes sense to have a PatchRelease01x01Contrib as part of the distro Release01x01 branch.
(09:24:57 AM) gac410: The time consuming part is going back to each old tarball and fitting the patches into the release.
(09:26:14 AM) ***MichaelDaum added 1.1.10 to
(09:26:42 AM) MichaelDaum: and
(09:26:57 AM) JulianLevens: If our build/deploy process were much much better would that negate the need for PatchContrib?
(09:28:03 AM) gac410: Anyway,  for backwards compat so far I've picked up Item13777 (URLPARAM / SEARCH backport)  Item13775  (CGI Param and -any) Item12616 (Perl deprectaions, but not the {} braces issue)  and Item12414    File::Temp 
(09:28:35 AM) gac410: JulianLevens:   I don't think so.   The patch contribs are for a site that cannot upgrade.  
(09:28:37 AM) ***MichaelDaum created for 81n for plugins
(09:28:45 AM) MichaelDaum: i18n
(09:29:29 AM) JulianLevens: Why can they not upgrade? Applying a patch contrib is an upgrade of sorts
(09:30:38 AM) gac410: Well some of it is that we have not built 1.1.10,  and didn't plan to.    So for ex.  one patch enables the Wildcard ACL  ALLOW=*     
(09:31:18 AM) MichaelDaum: nother patch for 1.1.10
(09:31:46 AM) gac410: And the reality is,  we have not made it easy.   The 1.1.x patches often made css changes that make any upgrades difficult.   
(09:32:01 AM) gac410: and other skin changes that really should not have been in a patch release.
(09:33:12 AM) MichaelDaum: nother patch at
(09:34:13 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum:   All of these are in 2.0 already?
(09:34:58 AM) JulianLevens: Ok, I hope to improve the build/dev tools. If may not resolve all the issues you cite but it will at least help some
(09:35:30 AM) MichaelDaum: gac410, y
(09:35:38 AM) MichaelDaum: as well as
(09:35:55 AM) gac410: The more important fixes are in our heads  :)   Not checking anything into a patch that is disruptive.   
(09:36:18 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum:    SpreadsheetPlugin is backwards compat.  Why would you patch that in vs. just upgrade the extension?
(09:37:02 AM) gac410: If I built a 1.1.10,  I'd probably pull the compatible extensions from master into 1.1 branch
(09:37:22 AM) MichaelDaum: ah ok wasnt sure. this is one I normally apply to a raw 1.1.9
(09:37:43 AM) MichaelDaum: here's another thing totally broken on 1.1.9:
(09:37:59 AM) gac410: yup  that's a good one.
(09:39:14 AM) gac410: I think we need to balance here.    The ones I'm focusing on a PatchRelease01x01Contrib.  are those that need to be addressed for external changes.  Ie Update CPAN and foswiki crashes
(09:39:26 AM) MichaelDaum: well and for performance I add a return 1 at the first line of noCheckinPending() ... which improves speed by a factor of 2
(09:39:40 AM) MichaelDaum: but thats a controversial one
(09:39:45 AM) gac410: y.  
(09:39:54 AM) MichaelDaum: tinymce is broken on sitecharset utf8
(09:40:00 AM) MichaelDaum: on a 1.1.9
(09:40:12 AM) gac410: master TMCE or Rel01x01
(09:40:32 AM) MichaelDaum: 1.1.9
(09:40:36 AM) MichaelDaum: WysiwygPlugin
(09:40:57 AM) gac410: Okay   well both released extensions in the repo work on 1.1.9, so won't go into a patch contrib.
(09:40:58 AM) MichaelDaum: minimal fix: disable Encode::encode in lib/Foswiki/Plugins/WysiwygPlugin/ 
(09:42:18 AM) MichaelDaum: also controversial
(09:42:52 AM) MichaelDaum: CDot called it "dangerous" ... alas it was the only way to get utf8 going on 1.1.9 for a very long time
(09:43:05 AM) gac410: with the PatchContrib,   i've been trying to fit the "Crash" fixes from every release 1.1.0 ->  1.1.9     That can take hours.   NFW am i going to try to fit all of this back into the 1.1.x 
(09:43:52 AM) gac410: So PatchReleaseContrib only for the truely urgent,  or for issues that would prevent fallback if you convert to 2.0 and had to drop back. 
(09:44:19 AM) CDot: Ah, you have to understand the meaning of "dangerous". It means "I will not be held responsible for the consequences" and not much more.
(09:44:36 AM) MichaelDaum: :)
(09:45:53 AM) gac410: We can certainly work on a 1.1.10.   Go ahead and check in all those tasks into 1.1.10 MichaelDaum    I'll be glad to build.   Though TMCE,  Spreadsheet, Wysiwyg, .. I'll probably just pull in the master versions.
(09:46:11 AM) MichaelDaum: yea thats better of course 
(09:46:57 AM) MichaelDaum: updating Smiles and Slideshow is a good idea too
(09:47:09 AM) gac410: That's typically what we've done on prior patch releases. ... integrate the updated extensions  (which picks up features .. but ...  )
(09:47:37 AM) MichaelDaum: updating JQueryPlugin could be more of a problem
(09:47:55 AM) gac410: Why?  
(09:48:15 AM) gac410: I've been running it on my 1.1.9 test systems.    Needs the URLPARAM encoding change though.
(09:48:23 AM) MichaelDaum: we changed some stuff such as replace jquery.tmpl with jsrender
(09:48:42 AM) MichaelDaum: there are some important changes to jquery.foswiki too
(09:48:56 AM) MichaelDaum: that older plugins might not like / newer plugins require
(09:49:33 AM) gac410: Isn't jquery.tmpl  still avaiablle.   I usually install, but don't turn off the deprecated plugins,  and generally it seems to work.   Needs new Twisty and TinyMCE to go along though.
(09:49:53 AM) MichaelDaum: y
(09:50:05 AM) MichaelDaum: what about updating PatternSkin?
(09:50:19 AM) gac410: no.   That one is major.  Breaks 1.1.x  due to missing core functionality
(09:50:35 AM) MichaelDaum: at least messages.tmpl needs a patch for the last minute securitiy fix in there
(09:50:58 AM) MichaelDaum: the "wrong use if PARAMs" one
(09:50:59 AM) gac410: I don't recall what it was now,  but something in Pattern fell apart with 1.1 render.
(09:51:05 AM) MichaelDaum: sec
(09:51:23 AM) gac410: yeah.  okay ... that one really should be in the PatchContrib    as it's a security fix.
(09:51:56 AM) MichaelDaum:
(09:52:16 AM) gac410: yeah   I remember.
(09:52:43 AM) jomo: new one
(09:53:29 AM) gac410: So all this ... begs the question.   Do we want to release a 1.1.10    or stay focused on a 2.1 feature release.
(09:54:26 AM) gac410: jomo,  yeah   That one should only expand if the user has auth to run bin/configure-   which I suppose in some ways makes it worse.
(09:55:46 AM) MichaelDaum: I think a lot of people would upgrade to 1.1.10 while hesitating going for the real thing.
(09:56:29 AM) MichaelDaum: it keeps them in the loop a bit longer
(09:56:37 AM) gac410: so.... Yea or Nay   ...   1.1.10 ?  (Compat fixes, Security subset, and backport extensions)     We definitely have a lot of security fixes in 2.0 which would be too extensive IMO to port to 1.1
(09:57:11 AM) MichaelDaum: +1 on yea
(09:57:22 AM) gac410: And the PatchContrib picks up the urgent of the urgent   
(09:57:48 AM) gac410: (And fits them into 1.1.8, 1.1.7 ...     how far back should we go?)
(09:58:44 AM) MichaelDaum: wait: either we do a patch contrib or a full 1.1.10 ... which comes with a patch-upgrade as well
(09:59:05 AM) gac410: Anyone else?   1.1.10?     Lavr opined the other day that we'd be better focused on fixing up the conversion process (ie the encoded pub links)
(09:59:06 AM) MichaelDaum: and only for 1.1.9 as people could patch-upgrade their way upwards
(09:59:25 AM) JulianLevens: FWIW: I don't have a strong feeling either way
(10:00:23 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum:    I see a full 1.1.10 as picking up a lot of fixes that the PatchContrib will omit.     My rationale on the Patch contrib is ... site is on 1.1.5,  some admin updates CPAN,  and world burns to ashes.
(10:00:39 AM) jomo: i’m not a dev - so only IMHO - FW hasn’t enough devs to maintain both -  1.1.x and 2.x
(10:01:20 AM) gac410: So PatchContrib picks up File::Temp,   CGI,  perl qw() deprecation,  and a few other issues
(10:02:50 AM) MichaelDaum: gac410, that sounds sensible
(10:03:21 AM) gac410: jomo,  I agree.  This is really a pretty simple back-port of the really urgent stuff,  and a few features that make upgrade process really difficult.
(10:04:20 AM) MichaelDaum: not sure how much effort it is to kick the tires and build 1.1.10
(10:05:11 AM) gac410: It's not a huge effort.   Unit tests are still passing.  I've been kind of poking at it.    And it also picks up all the translator's efforts.  
(10:06:55 AM) gac410: We did the same thing with 1.0.9 -> 1.1.0,    we came out with a 1.0.10 after 1.1.0   as a cleanup for the prior release stream.    That was the end of life for 1.0
(10:08:07 AM) MichaelDaum: well then it would be extremely cool
(10:08:41 AM) MichaelDaum: ... as a message to outer space
(10:12:18 AM) Lavr: Sorry I missed the meeting today. I had a meeting
(10:13:28 AM) gac410: no problem    We are discussing 1.1.10  ... and it seems leaning towards a final 1.1 release to clean up stuff. 
(10:14:06 AM) Lavr: Maybe be an easier path than making contribs/plugins/patches to make 1.1.9 hump along
(10:17:39 AM) gac410: A 1.1.10 would pick up a bunch of stuff that I wouldn not try to put into a Patch contrib.      The {} Braces deprecation is a huge patch.   
(10:18:32 AM) gac410: But  File::Temp  bug in Sandbox::sysCommand   is a good one to have as a patch.  So if a site updates cpan,  they can recover from a crashed foswiki,  be it 1.1.0 or 1.1.9
(10:27:16 AM) gac410: Okay guys   Any more business.    Feel free to check in *urgent* issues and major backwards compatibility fixes in to the Release01x01 branch. 
(10:28:15 AM) gac410: I'll keep plugging along on a Patch*Contrib to deal with the  "Someone updated cpan,  I've crashed and am burning"  class bugs.
(10:28:39 AM) MichaelDaum: okay thanks
(10:28:44 AM) gac410: Please no NEW maintenance on 1.1.10 that is not in 2.0    This is a  end-of-life catch-up
(10:29:43 AM) gac410: And no string changes if possible  :)
(10:30:15 AM) gac410: Anyone else?   Anything on pending features for 2.1?   
(10:31:59 AM) gac410: Oh....  Anyone want to tackle convering the old indirect object reference code    "new Some::Class()"     into   Some::Class->new()   
(10:32:25 AM) MichaelDaum: argh
(10:32:53 AM) gac410: Support web question... .some versions of perl is causing a complie error.
(10:33:13 AM) gac410:
(10:33:35 AM) gac410: I've tested up through 5.23.3    Jomo... have you seen anything with this type of errors?
(10:34:13 AM) gac410: perldoc perlobj     clearly strongly recommends against the  "new Class::Name"  style coding.
(10:34:22 AM) jomo: not yet - but i’m now on 5.20 ;) - going to install 5.23 again
(10:34:42 AM) gac410: I asked the reporter what version of perl he's using.   
(10:35:01 AM) ***jomo switched from perlbrew to plenv
(10:36:25 AM) gac410: Okay...    Let's adjourn.   Thanks everyone.   
(10:36:37 AM) jomo: cu
(10:36:41 AM) JulianLevens: Thanks George
(10:36:47 AM) JulianLevens left the room.

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