(08:36:26 AM) CDot entered the room. (08:56:14 AM) Lynnwood entered the room. (08:58:46 AM) andreli entered the room. (09:00:17 AM) gac410: Wohoo good turnout. Hi everyone Thanks for accommodating my schedule issues. (09:01:27 AM) gac410: I think our primary agenda item now is blocker review and decision on when to release Beta2. (09:05:45 AM) gac410: Everyone ready to start? (09:05:48 AM) CDot: aye (09:06:16 AM) jomo entered the room. (09:06:32 AM) gac410: Okay. 1st, kudos to CDot and Jozef ... for excellent work on the 1.2 utf8 / unicode update (09:07:10 AM) CDot: :-) (09:07:15 AM) gac410: We still have a couple of blockers, but so far things look good I think. (09:07:39 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum: Have you had a chance to give the changes a review? (09:07:42 AM) ***jomo did nothing -> CDot !! (09:08:02 AM) MichaelDaum: gac410, nope I am packed with work ... heads down. (09:08:41 AM) gac410: Has anyone else been working with trunk? (09:09:08 AM) CDot: anyone? (09:09:23 AM) CDot: WikiRingBot: done any work with trunk? (09:09:23 AM) ***WikiRingBot does not understand done any work with trunk? (09:09:25 AM) jomo: me - in production ;) (09:11:21 AM) gac410: Okay... well for blockers. http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13338 I take it that one can be deferred post 1.2? NFC/NFD issue? (09:12:13 AM) gac410: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13419 seems to be a 1.1.9 issue, awaiting feedback from nobody. Last comment was appears fixed in 1.2 (09:12:27 AM) JulianLevens1 entered the room. (09:12:47 AM) CDot: jomo: needs to comment on http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13338 (09:12:58 AM) gac410: item11262, Item13139 are both "catchall" so skipping them. (09:13:09 AM) jomo: hm.. just testing it in freebsd installation and IMHO here is a bug ... in the natedit the image name is corrupt - but again, i have only os x client... (09:13:36 AM) jomo: <img alt='ČáŘý.png' height='50' src='%ATTACHURLPATH%/ÄŒÃ¡Å˜Ã½.png' width='152' /> (09:13:52 AM) jomo: i got the above in the natedit... (09:14:06 AM) jomo: wgen switching from wysiwyg (09:14:10 AM) jomo: when (09:14:42 AM) CDot: so you edited the topic in wysiwyg, then switched to Nat? OK, testing (09:15:20 AM) gac410: Jomo, also if you could comment on http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13423 ... I have not seen any more warnings, with my perlbrew Can probably be set to waiting for release. (09:15:36 AM) jomo: 1.) just saved a new topic 2.) attached the image 3.) edit (default wyiswyg) 4.) switch to natedit... (09:16:00 AM) jomo: gac410: it is perfect - no more warnings.. ;) (09:17:00 AM) jomo: conflict - GeorgeClark is editing Item13423. :) :) (09:17:07 AM) CDot: jomo: ok, I can confirm what you are seeing; there's a double-encoding going on somewhere (09:17:11 AM) gac410: I just set waiting for release. (09:17:27 AM) jomo: CDot: huh! ok :) :) (09:18:40 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum: You opened http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13438 Is that a 1.2. blocker? It doesn't describe how to recreate it or when/where it occurs. (09:18:55 AM) ***MichaelDaum clicks (09:19:02 AM) MichaelDaum: cant remember by item number (09:19:25 AM) MichaelDaum: well this was easy to repro (09:19:43 AM) MichaelDaum: I tried to edit or move a table line using editrowplugin (09:20:15 AM) MichaelDaum: the thing tries to convert an obj to json ... and stumbled upon Foswiki::Attr being a blessed obj yet no TO_JSON method in it (09:20:20 AM) MichaelDaum: the contained patch fixed it (09:20:46 AM) CDot: hum... I think a Foswiki::Attr should have a TO_JSON (09:20:54 AM) MichaelDaum: on 1.1.9? (09:21:08 AM) CDot: ah, ok. Thought you were on 1.2 (09:21:18 AM) MichaelDaum: those plugins must remain backwards compatible (09:21:38 AM) MichaelDaum: it should block their new release if thats not the case (09:22:31 AM) CDot: y. fair enough, your patch is fine then (09:23:00 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum: can you apply it then? (09:24:00 AM) MichaelDaum: no not now (09:24:14 AM) MichaelDaum: can somebody please take over? (09:24:25 AM) gac410: Okay I can apply it (09:24:29 AM) MichaelDaum: thanks (09:25:18 AM) gac410: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13441 One more edit row plugin bug I'm uncomfortable with, but I didn't make it a blocker. In the TestCaseUtf8Errors page, one table gets truncated and I have no idea why. (09:26:39 AM) gac410: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13424 has a "workaround" ... it seems to be a perl bug. I trap the failure with an eval, and things seem to survive. (09:28:05 AM) gac410: Any other 1.2 blocker concerns? (09:28:30 AM) CDot: are you using utf8/unicode throughout the i18N/maketext process? (09:28:31 AM) jomo: gac410 for the 13424 - if you want - test the 2line patch... ;) it helps - but much more encoding occurs... (09:28:51 AM) CDot: or can people edit/save bytes? (09:29:08 AM) ***gac410 doesn't understand the question (09:29:25 AM) CDot: ok. All files are saved as bytes, right? (09:29:44 AM) CDot: so, how do people interact with those files that provide the language stuff? (09:29:55 AM) CDot: is it only through a fully unicode-compliant interface (09:30:08 AM) gac410: weblate just commits the stuff into github. I don't manually edit (09:30:10 AM) CDot: or can they text-edit the byte files, ignoring the encoding? (09:30:11 AM) jomo: CDot: it seems to be an perl-error - for some perl versions it works - for some no... (09:30:36 AM) CDot: if it's a perl error, it really needs nailing down (09:30:49 AM) ***CDot would supect it's more likely an editing tools error (09:30:58 AM) CDot: or an error in a CPAN module (09:30:58 AM) gac410: But it only fails on perl 5.16.3 (09:31:06 AM) CDot: still. (09:31:22 AM) CDot: until you can nail it down.... (09:31:26 AM) jomo: the same maketext - the 5.16.3 fails - 5.20.2 works - and such... (09:31:26 AM) gac410: I've tried updating 5.16.3 to very latest Locale / Maketext extensinos, still fails. (09:32:10 AM) CDot: really need to develop a micro-example and report it upstream (09:32:21 AM) gac410: is 5.16 still maintained? (09:32:22 AM) CDot: cos otherwise, such a perl bug could have other repercussions (09:32:35 AM) gac410: 5.18 works fine (09:32:53 AM) CDot: hmmm. then don't we have to require 5.18? (09:33:01 AM) CDot: at least when i18n'ing? (09:33:36 AM) gac410: With ASSERTS disabled, the logs are noisy. It's a warning, not a crash (09:33:42 AM) CDot: oh, ok (09:33:48 AM) CDot: I thought it was a crash (09:33:51 AM) CDot: n.m. then (09:34:04 AM) gac410: it's actually just the copyright string and I have no idea why it's just that string in 2-3 languages that crashes. (09:34:19 AM) gac410: well on trunk it's a crash because we run with asserts :) (09:34:24 AM) gac410: t.f.o tha tis. (09:35:07 AM) jomo: in the net i saw some mentions about the bug in the Encode... in the 5.16... (09:35:26 AM) gac410: we should probably add in the release notes that there is a know issue with perl 5.16 (09:35:46 AM) CDot: y (09:36:47 AM) jomo: or just add the 2line patch for the 5.16... - it works (only encodes every maketext output) - not at once at read - as default... (09:38:14 AM) gac410: But as you say, we would need to do your patch everywhere i18n->maketext is called. (09:38:55 AM) jomo: damm - yes... it is 2 line but many times... youre right... it doen't make sense... (09:39:49 AM) gac410: So far we've only seen one string that causes the issue on t.f.o, and the eval I added traps the error. (09:40:59 AM) gac410: Damn... git conflict in t.f.o http://trunk.foswiki.org/Main/WebHome >>>>>>> Stashed changes (09:41:54 AM) gac410: okay. no big deal. I fixed LieVen's "developer question" which he posted into the Main/Webhome. (09:43:28 AM) jomo: guys, here are some plans to convert F.O and T.F.O to utf8? (last time i checked the store was iso1 - because the compatibility with the F.O.) (09:43:36 AM) gac410: And for the impact of Item13424. View http://trunk.foswiki.org/Main/WebHome with language French, and copyright string at bottom becomes: ERROR: Translation failed, see server error log. (09:43:50 AM) gac410: jomo That's next on the agenda (09:44:19 AM) jomo: cool (09:45:03 AM) gac410: So for blockers. Just Item13338 - the NatEdit image issue. and CDot, you are working on it ??? (09:46:00 AM) gac410: And I'll take 13438, the TO_JSON blessed object issue, And Item13424 (perl 5.16 error) I'll document in release notes. (09:46:31 AM) gac410: Ah... Unit test crashes. There are 6 failing testsin the nightly runs (09:46:44 AM) gac410: I cannot recreate the TWikiFunc failures. They all work for me,. (09:47:28 AM) gac410: The RCS errors. CDot I looked them over, and was afraid to 'fix the tests' as they did seem to be reporting a change in how corrupted TOPICINFO is dealt with. (09:49:27 AM) gac410: Okay. I'll take silence as nothing more to add??? (09:49:43 AM) gac410: So onto jomo's question. foswiki.org utf8 change (09:50:02 AM) gac410: CDot and I started working on that yesterday. (09:50:34 AM) gac410: I was going to run the CharsetConverter last night, but held off due to some conversion needed on trunk Sandbox. (09:51:41 AM) gac410: The converter will only run on 1.1.x installations, so this evening I plan to symlink the 1.2 webs back into our 1.1.9 install, shutdown apache, and run the converter (09:52:00 AM) CDot: gac410: yes, I'm working on it (hence the lack of attention :-( ) (09:52:06 AM) gac410: :) (09:52:44 AM) gac410: That brings up a issue we found on f.o. WikiAppInstallerPlugin And the WikiApps web. (09:52:47 AM) CDot: the reload tests... I added 'skip' to those tests, but it doesn't seem to be working :-( (09:53:13 AM) CDot: it works for me locally (09:53:19 AM) ***CDot checks he pushed it (09:53:38 AM) gac410: CDot: The tests fail for me. Are they reporting a legitimate error? (09:53:48 AM) CDot: no (09:54:27 AM) CDot: ah, I didn't push it yet, I was adding some more unit tests (09:54:41 AM) gac410: i tried changing the asserts to match what was returned, but it keeps going downhill. More asserts fail (09:54:55 AM) gac410: clearly store is returning a different version that what the test wants. (09:55:33 AM) CDot: y, because the test is *wrong* for 1.2.0, which has the problem fixed (09:55:59 AM) CDot: it's a bad test. (09:56:02 AM) gac410: Ah... okay. (09:56:02 AM) gac410: So everyone else lurking here. trunk has some very very major changes that will go into Beta 2 - if you haven't guessed that by now. (09:56:26 AM) jast: there wasn't _that_ much guesswork involved... (09:56:30 AM) gac410: L) (09:56:32 AM) gac410: :) (09:57:15 AM) gac410: If anyone else can run / test 1.2 before we go public with beta 2, that would be helpful (09:57:34 AM) CDot: especially those with odd clients / strange charsets, please (09:57:35 AM) jomo: with plainstore it just works... ;) (09:57:51 AM) jomo: (not counting some minor errors) (09:58:36 AM) CDot: oh.... and if you have anyone in your teams/clients who have used mixed charsets in the 1.1.9 installs (save UTF-8 in an iso-8859-1 install) then we (gac410 or I) can help you. (09:58:39 AM) gac410: we probably also need one more review of the UpgradeGuide & release notes. Do we highlight the changes enough. (09:58:58 AM) jomo: will try run again the unit-tests (last times whe i tried - it died)... (09:59:20 AM) CDot: jomo: write a strongly worded email to Apple ;-) (09:59:54 AM) gac410: Okay so back to foswiki.org The WikiApp web allows guests to update topics via the WikiAppInstallerPlugin (09:59:57 AM) jomo: heh ;) i'm pretty happy with osx - but this is purely my own mac-filia ;) (10:00:58 AM) gac410: That one not that it is explained was not as worrysome, but the issue is that bots scanning the links on the WikiApp webhome results in updates of sandbox/WikiGuest subweb. (10:01:44 AM) gac410: So we need decisions on foswiki.org. 1) Should we kill the WikiApps web and demonstration apps. They seem to have not been maintained for 4 years. (10:02:06 AM) CDot: what's there? (10:02:46 AM) gac410: ContactList, FamilyTree and a few others. co-author is some guy with handle CDot :D (10:03:07 AM) CDot: I remember now... we developed it during the first Foswiki camp (10:03:18 AM) andreli: I would say: kill the web and bring it back later new an shiny (10:03:18 AM) CDot: Padraig did most of the work, and I helped out a bit (10:03:51 AM) CDot: it would be a shame to kill it *dead*, but as it is, it's not useful (10:03:58 AM) CDot: probably only visited by bots (10:03:59 AM) gac410: Is Padraig still active at all? (10:04:02 AM) CDot: no (10:04:11 AM) CDot: once in a while, but not reliable (10:04:28 AM) CDot: he will respond to email, is about all (10:04:39 AM) andreli: Ok, not kill it, but put it aside for the time beeing (10:04:56 AM) gac410: well we could restrict WikiApps to logged in users, that would get rid of the guest updates, but leave it active for others. (10:05:09 AM) CDot: y, let's do that (10:07:00 AM) gac410: Done (10:07:49 AM) gac410: Okay. So for tonight. I will shut down apache. probably around 0000Z and do the utf8 migration (10:08:26 AM) gac410: If I get into trouble, unless it's a complete disaster, I'll leave you an email for tomorrow morning if that's okay CDot (10:08:38 AM) CDot: ok (10:09:58 AM) gac410: Once we have trunk.f.o running with utf8, give things a few days for new blockers to pop up. (10:10:10 AM) gac410: Any concerns about building Beta 2 this upcoming weekend? (10:10:18 AM) jomo: no :) (10:10:32 AM) jomo: only one - call it as 1.9 :) (10:10:42 AM) CDot: 2.0.0? (10:10:55 AM) jomo: nah - it isn't 2.0... (10:11:09 AM) jomo: the 2.0 should be PSGI clean... ;) (10:11:33 AM) CDot: true, and have "More topic actions...." ajaxified (10:11:40 AM) jomo: (imho much more work as with the utf8 switch)... (10:11:50 AM) gac410: I think it will be less confusing to stick with 1.2.0 It's all we've been talking about for a long time. I don't think we should skip it. It would imply something was wrong. (10:11:57 AM) CDot: k (10:12:04 AM) jomo: ofc - just kidiing ;) (10:12:19 AM) gac410: MichaelDaum: is our marketing savvy guy .. (10:13:48 AM) gac410: So for existing sites. advice is: bulk_copy .pl to convert to utf8 ... unless your topics have mixed character sets. (10:14:08 AM) gac410: If mixed, then install CharsetConverterContrib and "-r" to repair (10:14:56 AM) CDot: right (10:15:02 AM) CDot: before the bulk_copy (10:15:15 AM) gac410: Oh. MichaelDaum One thing I'll do before building 1.2, is merge the FastCGI and ModPerl engine contribs into distro (10:15:43 AM) gac410: That will be a big repo change, so everyone, if you have pending commits to the engines, please get them done (10:15:52 AM) CDot: gac410: we should probably check in the local hack to CharSetConverterContrib (10:16:20 AM) CDot: when are you gooing to do it? (10:16:20 AM) gac410: CDot: will the bulk_copy fail if there are mixed characters? How does a site know to need CharsetConverter (10:16:43 AM) CDot: the bulk copy won't fail, it will just transfer garbage (10:17:00 AM) CDot: since those topics are *already* garbage, that's OK (10:17:03 AM) gac410: Do it? ... (merge engin repos? ) I'll give 24 hour notice. Probably this weekend (10:17:07 AM) CDot: ok (10:18:02 AM) gac410: CDot I did some more hacks to charset converter. Print the name *before* starting the conversion, so it's clear which topic triggered errors. (10:18:10 AM) jast: are you planning to completely rewrite the distro repo for that? (10:18:19 AM) jast: shouldn't be necessary (10:18:24 AM) gac410: jast: No, it should just be a merge commit (10:18:38 AM) jast: okay... in that case I don't think it will be that big a change (10:19:02 AM) gac410: it's more a bigger change for anyone with branches and pending work in the engine contribs themselves. (10:19:20 AM) jast: that it is, yeah (10:19:47 AM) jast: still fairly doable, though (10:20:32 AM) gac410: I documented what I plan to do ... somewhere :D (10:20:57 AM) gac410: http://foswiki.org/Development/GitRepository#Merge_an_extension_into_the_distro_repository (10:21:03 AM) jast: in any case I'm not worried :) (10:22:31 AM) gac410: By using the filter-branch, it avoids the "move" of files, so the log command continues to work without needing the --follow option (10:23:17 AM) jast: the downside is that all the history is rewritten :} but I don't actually care that much which way we do it, so there's no need to delay the rest of the meeting on my account (10:23:53 AM) gac410: Yeah. it breaks all the links in Tasks. I'm not sure what to do about that. (10:24:03 AM) gac410: But they'd be broken even without the filter_branch (10:24:26 AM) gac410: Lieven has been very active with translations of multiple languages. (10:24:41 AM) gac410: nobody has complained ... hopefully it's been acceptable. (10:24:48 AM) jast: we could keep an archive copy of the repo(s) somewhere to at least make it possible to find the right commit _somewhere_ (10:25:04 AM) jast: I haven't had much time to review translations (10:25:18 AM) gac410: I'll leave the repos on github, but with OBSOLETE_ comment (10:25:19 AM) jast: I'll look at German occasionally, though (10:25:41 AM) gac410: he's been changing french as well, I'm hoping RaulFR has been seeing them. (10:26:24 AM) CDot: do they speak french on Klingonia? (10:27:07 AM) ***CDot wonders briefly what the home planet of the Klingons is called..... and quickly decides he really doesn't care) (10:27:28 AM) gac410: Qo'noS (10:27:46 AM) CDot: I knew I shouldn't have asked (10:27:58 AM) ***gac410 had to look it up as he doesn't care either. (10:28:02 AM) CDot: :-) (10:28:19 AM) jast: so then why did you look it up? ;) (10:28:48 AM) CDot: Klingonia has a much better ring to it. Onomatopoeic. (10:28:58 AM) gac410: But regardless Lieven has been very diligent reporting source string errors - missing periods, extra spaces, grammar issues, etc. (10:29:22 AM) gac410: So it's improving our overall quality. (10:29:29 AM) CDot: excellent (10:30:10 AM) gac410: One point he brought up. "Search" is used in many places sometimes as noun, sometimes as verb. But in German it should be two different words (10:30:25 AM) ***jomo wondering than using gettext.js (client-side load of the po.files) could helps performance.. (10:30:42 AM) gac410: or even an adjective "Search results" (10:31:14 AM) jast: I don't think that's an adjective... more like a short form of "results of search" (10:31:18 AM) CDot: jomo: it does when you have a really fast server, but if your server is a bit slow, it can slow everything down. (10:31:26 AM) gac410: But for the single word, does anyone know if maketext has any tricks to note usage as verb or noun? (10:31:43 AM) jast: well, we still are lacking localization of messages generated on the client side (10:31:49 AM) jast: (AFAIK) (10:32:35 AM) jomo: CDot why? it loads the po file only once - and everything is done at browser - what has the server with this? (10:33:00 AM) CDot: jomo: oh, sorry, for a single po load then yes, it can help (10:33:17 AM) ***CDot was working with an AJAX translation lookup, which is a dog (10:33:40 AM) jomo: ah yes - thats is an overkill (10:34:10 AM) MichaelDaum: gac410, no I don't have any changes pending for fcgi (10:34:45 AM) MichaelDaum: and never been using mod_perl in production envs (10:35:19 AM) gac410: okay Then sometime this weekend, the individual repos will be deprecated. (10:35:24 AM) MichaelDaum: marketing 1.2. 0.... don't make me writing about KIingon UI :/ (10:35:37 AM) CDot: I have one change for FastCGIEngine, but it's not important and can be skipped (unless jomo wants to pursue NFC/NFD normalisation) (10:36:22 AM) CDot: MichaelDaum: what have you got against the Klingons? Are you a Romulan sympathiser? ;-) (10:36:22 AM) jomo: nah - sure not now... problems will shown itself when the FO/TFO will runs 1.2 ;) (10:37:07 AM) gac410: Yeah, but can t* boast that they can be translated to klingon :D (10:37:22 AM) CDot: ok, and I have the same change for ModPerlContrib, also not ciritical (10:37:31 AM) MichaelDaum: CDot, nerd - nerdier - klingon (10:38:04 AM) gac410: Engine changes can go before or after. If you are maintaingin them in a branch, it would probably be easier to get them done first. (10:38:26 AM) MichaelDaum: though QM in Klingon ... this is almost brill again (10:38:35 AM) CDot: y, ok. I can't remember the task number. One of jomo's (10:38:50 AM) jomo: ? (10:39:01 AM) CDot: NFC/NFD normalisation (10:39:40 AM) gac410: well regardless MichaelDaum supporting Lieven in translation to klingon has resulted in a lot of good quality fixes in the underlying source strings. So it's a win IMO (10:40:10 AM) MichaelDaum: gac410, def (10:40:17 AM) jomo: http://foswiki.org/Tasks/Item13405 this? (10:41:24 AM) gac410: Okay. Any other concerns for the release meeting? (10:43:10 AM) andreli: Looking forward to Beta 2. Keep up the excellent work. Thanks a lot guys. (10:46:17 AM) jomo: 1.2 will be wonderfull - it correctly shows (and allows edit) extremelly strange uni-sequences too, like: ☺̸̤̃⃝ (10:47:52 AM) JulianLevens1 left the room. (10:48:37 AM) CDot: jomo: perfect, thanks (10:51:30 AM) MichaelDaum: good to know (10:51:32 AM) MichaelDaum: :) (10:52:43 AM) jmk0 entered the room. (11:18:44 AM) andreli left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection). (12:44:36 PM) MichaelDaum left the room (quit: ). (01:05:39 PM) jomo left the room. (01:20:22 PM) Lynnwood is now known as Lynnwood_ (01:34:21 PM) CDot left the room. (01:50:23 PM) Lynnwood_ is now known as Lynnwood (02:25:15 PM) Lynnwood left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 256 seconds). (05:53:33 PM) gac410: I've updated the perl version guidance. (05:53:35 PM) gac410: Perl 5.8.8 is the minimum perl version. The newer the better. There are know issues with international characters and Perl 5.16.x See Item13424. For international character set support, Perl 5.18+ is recommended.